Theresa: 0:01

You know, when you have over 25 plus years of experience in a particular career path, you feel comfortable, you feel like you know what you're doing, you know the people, you just you know. And even though there was this, you know, nagging in my mind and in my heart like okay, this is going to be scary, it actually took me a bit of time to really embrace that it's time for a change.

Beki: 0:30

Hi, I'm Beki

Beki: 0:31

. Welcome to Beki Short Story Long. In this podcast we discuss ways you can integrate who you are into how you lead. Sometimes the writing is on the wall that change is coming. We don't always know when and how that will show itself. Today's guest talks about a time when her career plans didn't match the career ladder solution that her leader was offering. She needed to take charge of her own destiny by saying no. Instead of climbing the ladder, she chose to say yes to a new path that was vastly different from her long and successful career in HR. Today I have an interview with Teresa. I've known her both as a colleague and as a friend. She has many stories to share and she agreed to share one of her inflection points with me today. Earlier I shared the short story and she's here to tell us the longer version. I am excited to have Teresa on the podcast today and I would love you just have an opportunity to introduce yourself to the audience.

Theresa: 1:36

Thank you, becky. It's so great to be here with you. I've really enjoyed your podcast so far and I'm happy to share a bit about my own journey and, as you know, since we worked together several years ago, I've spent most of my career in human resources, and only in the last couple of years I made a big shift into a new career, and that's in sustainability, so I'm really looking forward to talking about that with you here today.

Beki: 2:04

I am too, because I know some of the top level stuff about that transition, but I don't know all of the details, and so I get to learn so much more about your journey and your thought process through that experience, and so thank you for sharing that story with us today. And I guess where I'd love to start is just when you were in HR. You know what was happening for you before. This change was inspired and moved you forward.

Theresa: 2:34

You know, when you and I worked together, I think one thing that both of us appreciated was the variety of opportunities we were afforded when we did work together. And, like you, I had the chance to take on a secondment, which is where I temporarily worked in a different business unit. I was filling in for someone on maternity leave At that time. There were no guarantees that my original role would still be there when I returned, but I took the leap and that assignment turned into a full-time opportunity and I really thrived in that new environment. I gained some invaluable skills and confidence at that time.

Beki: 3:11

What were some of the things that were really kind of exciting for you to be learning during that time in your HR career?

Theresa: 3:19

It was just a totally different business operation, even though it was within the same organization. They had different clients, different ways of working, and so I had to learn the leaders, the leadership style, the goals, the objectives. It was all really quite new, again still being within the same organization. So it was fascinating to be a part of a global company to see how different business units operate.

Beki: 3:48

Yes, and my memory of that organization too is that you didn't have to move geographically very far in order to have a vastly different culture to understand and absorb, and that was stressful and that was also exciting as well. What were you thinking about and feeling about your HR career, as you were kind of moving through at that point in time?

Theresa: 4:11

Well, you know, I really had the privilege of working on some complex projects, like some mergers and acquisition work. The stakes were high. Learning curve was steep. You and I experienced one of those opportunities together. Yes, we did I also had led some talent development initiatives, helped create some programs for high potential employees. I gained some deep experience in building and supporting teams, and so all of these experiences kept me engaged in HR really for many years, and all of that helped shape, I would say, the determined professional that I am today.

Beki: 4:49

Yes, there is that that comes through right, Like I have a direction and I will find my way to be successful with that right, and when you think about what was coming up for you as you were thinking about making a change away from.

Theresa: 5:03

HR.

Beki: 5:04

What was different for you then?

Theresa: 5:06

The yearning for more purpose and impact had been growing within me, and especially during the pandemic, when I was tasked with conducting reorgs and employee layoffs, and these situations were handled by the organization in what I would consider to be a less than desirable manner and it left employees on edge and it really wore on me as the local HR professional. So, as someone who tries to lead with empathy both in the workplace and within my personal life, there was sort of that final straw that came to play at a holiday party when a long-term executive leader spoke to me in an extremely negative way, and so, unfortunately, I was later involved in that person's departure from the organization, even though, truly, their behavior should have been addressed years earlier, and I realized that I was surrounded by people who were fed up and in negative places of their own Totally understandable. Again, we are still trying to manage through a truly unprecedented period of time, the pandemic. I was constantly taking on other people's issues and trying to fix them, as I had often done throughout my decades-long career in human resources, but the thing is I just wasn't feeling much support, nor was I seeing meaningful results, and so, truly, becky, I was exhausted from being the person who was helping to try to keep people accountable, making tough decisions, having those difficult conversations I was tired of always being the one to ask the tough questions and finally I had an honest conversation with my direct manager.

Theresa: 6:56

Now I think it's important to know she wanted me to take on a bigger HR role and it had to do with preparing to succeed another leader who was going to be retiring. But that was what she wanted. It was not what I wanted. I knew in my heart that I needed something different after all of these years in HR. But, to her credit, she listened and she eventually presented me with an unexpected opportunity, and that was to help design the company's ESG or sustainability strategy. So that at the time I didn't even know what ESG meant. So I asked for a couple of days to think it over, and during that time I reached out to a friend in the industry and his explanation really opened up a whole new world for me.

Beki: 7:53

It was intriguing, it sounded challenging and exactly what I needed, and so I went back to my manager, I accepted the opportunity and I started the new year in a new role opportunity and I started the new year in a new role and just going back to that idea, too, of recognizing all of the issues and challenges and problems that you were seeing from that HR seat and then kind of taking them onto your shoulders as the person who needed to fix them. The person who needed to fix them. What is it that you think was really harder for you at that point in your career versus earlier in your HR career?

Theresa: 8:32

I had invested so much energy and time and you know, building my network, building my knowledge base. You know when you have over 25 plus years of experience in a particular career path. You feel comfortable, you feel like you know what you're doing, you know the people, you just know. And even though there was this nagging in my mind and in my heart like, okay, this is going to be scary, it actually took me a bit of time to really embrace that it's time for a change.

Beki: 9:11

Okay.

Theresa: 9:12

So when your manager offered you that new opportunity, outcome of that experience so, as I had mentioned, there was no guarantee that a role would exist when that temporary work opportunity was over. However, it all ended up working out okay. I powered through that uncertainty and I reminded myself of that experience many years ago and that so I told myself you know what, even though this is scary and uncertain today, give it a shot. Okay, I don't ever want to look back with any regret.

Beki: 10:10

Yeah, and part of it, too, that you were talking about before was identifying and fulfilling that purpose. I mean, that's something that you have had, I know, throughout your life as well, as sort of that desire to fulfill purpose in some sort of way. What is it that you think is fundamentally true about you, that that pulls you in that way? Because that's not everyone?

Theresa: 10:34

I don't think true about you that pulls you in that way? Because that's not everyone, I don't think. So.

Theresa: 10:43

I have a sibling who has Down syndrome and so, growing up as the older sister of a person with Down syndrome, I've spent my life always looking out for my brother and trying to put myself in his shoes, the challenges that he experiences on a daily basis, and really growing to appreciate how he has evolved into his own self and becoming a more independent person over the years.

Theresa: 11:12

So I went from being sort of the protective big sister to being that person who supports and encourages him to become his own self, that independent, strong person that he is today. And so that experience led to being involved with other organizations that have a similar purpose, being involved in the Special Olympics of Michigan ever since I was in high school, and so that's through the joy of sport and competition and teamwork, you know, helping individuals with different learning and developmental disabilities, again really finding joy and success through sports. So did that for many, many years, which then led to other organizations, nonprofit organizations, that have a very similar bend to it, which is, you know, always around helping people with intellectual and developmental disabilities. It's just become, you know, part of my life and a passion, and so I've seen those similarities in the way I approach my work, my professional life.

Beki: 12:32

Absolutely. I mean, you were talking there about talent development and in many respects you're using that same lens on a personal level with your brother, right Like let's see how he wants to navigate through these kinds of things, where he wants to go, and let's support him in doing that. You know, teresa, one of the things that I wonder about a little bit when we were talking about you considering the two choices, where your manager was saying, hey, I've got this idea for this larger HR role and you said no to that. What was it about that HR role? That didn't feel like the right answer for you at that time.

Theresa: 13:13

Yeah, that's a good question, Becky, feel like the right answer for you at that time. Yeah, that's a good question, becky, and in some regards it might have to do with the fact that it just felt like it was really the only option she herself could see for me, without truly understanding what I can do, what I bring to the table, what's important to me as a person, and that it was sort of like the easiest choice for everyone, that to the rest of the world. Well, that just makes sense. It's going up on the ladder, and so why wouldn't I want to just continue up that upward trajectory?

Beki: 14:03

Yes, right, because there can be this implicit assumption or bias that if you've chosen a path, that's the path you want to follow and you were hearing all of these whispers of but there might be something else I could do. Right. And and with that, as you chose to go into that sustainability path, it's not like you were leaving every skill and talent you had ever developed behind. How were you able to leverage all of the things that you had learned along the way, whether it was HR, whether it was the work you did with Special Olympics that you could leverage to use in the sustainability spot?

Theresa: 14:44

It starts with curiosity, in my opinion, and not diving into something, feeling like you just have to know it all at once. It's about recognizing that this is new. It's okay. Find out what is most important to learn and expand your knowledge around, utilize the resources available to you and just dive in and learn along the way. I'm sure we're all familiar with the term of flying the airplane while it's being built, and I think that's actually it's really important to be able to do that. That these days especially, so much is changing around us, and so you know being flexible and agile and willing to learn and make a few mistakes and ask a lot of questions along the way, and that was just something that I've. I've always the way I've approached different opportunities in my career.

Beki: 15:56

Yeah, absolutely. And it's so easy to say and challenging to do that idea of I'll give myself room to learn and I'll give myself the grace to make those mistakes. What were some of the things that you needed to learn in order for you to be able to give yourself?

Theresa: 16:18

that space and that grace. There are a lot of terminologies and regulations and you know just different ways of working in the field. That I had to learn.

Theresa: 16:33

But then I realized it's just words and oftentimes it's just a different way of describing something, and so by listening to all these different podcasts and webinars and reaching out to different sustainability professionals, professionals building my network, asking people hey, I see you do this in the field of sustainability. Would you mind if we met for about 15 minutes and so I could learn more about what you do? That was truly the foundation that I needed to get comfortable in the field of sustainability, but really recognizing like there are so many transferable skills, and so, again, just going back to learning the new terms and what they really mean, and it's much like when you're learning the rules and regulations and terminology in human resources. I think there's just a lot of parallels.

Beki: 17:37

Yeah, well, and that's actually exactly what was occurring to me is, when you were talking about the foundations that you had in HR, even before the secondment you were talking about, I had my network, I had my knowledge that, and recognizing much like the risk of the secondment, that I've done this before and I can do this again and it's so powerful that you were able to tap into those skills of even building that network that you had already done, to be able to leverage that. When you think about how moving into sustainability played out, what do you notice now about the growth and the development that you've had in that direction?

Theresa: 18:29

It was not an easy journey at all, and so along the way I did have to remind myself there was going to be a positive result, that this would be worthwhile in the end. So I took on the new responsibility leading the design of the ESG strategy. It was an exciting opportunity in. Those first nine months in that new role were really amazing. First nine months in that new role were really amazing. I poured my whole self into learning and leading and evolving in this new space.

Theresa: 19:08

But the challenges did not disappear, becky, and really it was because my position ended up being eliminated. It was determined to be non-essential. I really felt the weight of rejection, and it wasn't just from losing the role from an organization where I had dedicated several years of my expertise and leadership, but truly it was also from repeatedly being passed over after several interviews during my job search. Now, the job search took about nine months and during that time it was hard not to question my decision or to doubt my abilities. I was asking myself had I made a mistake, leaving behind my HR expertise for this unfamiliar territory?

Beki: 19:58

territory? Absolutely, that would make sense. And and yet you, you held the course right and and really stayed in that direction. What were some of the things that you realized about yourself as you stayed that course and continued on that direction?

Theresa: 20:19

One important thing for sure is the power of having a really strong support system, and this did, of course, include you, becky.

Theresa: 20:29

I just have to say you were a huge source of encouragement and I appreciate that you regularly checked in and offered words of wisdom, and I loved our walks and meeting up at restaurants to talk about my progress and, of course, you were always asking me those really smart, good coaching questions which helped me see that I really was on the right path, even though at times it felt uncertain. So thank you for that Absolutely. So thank you for that Absolutely. I came across a lot of people that were sort of asking me. In their way, they were trying to be kind. You know, they were worried about this decision that I had made Family and friends because they saw, as the months went on and I still hadn't found my new opportunity. In their own way, they were trying to give me what they thought was helpful advice. So you know many well-intentioned people giving me advice and not all of it was really right for me.

Theresa: 21:38

So I realized how important it is to lean on people who really know me, and that was my you know closest friends, some family members, people who understand my strengths and my values, and so those were the friends who know me as a long distance runner, for example, as a long distance runner, for example, someone who willingly puts herself through six months of training to run 26.2 miles. People who know me as the sibling of a person with Down syndrome. People who know that I value you, know family and goodness, and that I'm someone who has been able to weather a lot of difficult HR situations, those people who really know me. Their belief in me was really that guiding light that I needed during those nine months, and those were the people who supported me when I said you know what I'm going to try and do, like this little independent consulting thing on the side and start up my LLC and see where that goes, which then allowed me to work with a local nonprofit and help them with their own strategic work for a period of time, which gave me that confidence that I needed as I started to consider should I actually just go back into human resources?

Theresa: 23:11

This is getting pretty tough and so realizing okay, it's starting to get pretty tough. How long can I go down this path? Do I actually want to become an entrepreneur, like you have done, becky, or do I want to work for another organization? And so I had these conversations with myself and with my husband and we realized how important it is to sort of set boundaries. You have to recognize and respect your own limitations, especially when it comes to finances.

Beki: 23:47

Right.

Theresa: 23:48

So you know, during that time, those nine months that I spent job searching, it sort of did push the limit and I am grateful that my husband and I had the means to persevere. I know not everyone has that. So we did realize together it's important to set those boundaries so your goals don't lead to those unintended financial consequences. We had to sort of find the balance between pursuing my dream but also being practical.

Beki: 24:19

And you know all of those well-intentioned folks who are saying you know, you're really great in HR, you've got this great success. I mean, the easy button would really be to go back into that space and I remember that it called to you a little bit, but it just didn't feel right for you. What is it that you think really kept you on track, where you could say I will persist and go in the direction that I feel is right for me?

Theresa: 24:49

I'm a goal setter. I love to achieve, and when I knew that this was the path I wanted to go on, there was no other option for me. I needed to achieve that goal and also overcome all of those little obstacles along the way.

Beki: 25:10

Yeah, and in that process I mean, those are things that I think you knew about yourself as you went into that. What are the things that you learned about yourself as you went through that transition?

Theresa: 25:23

I learned again that even when things are so uncertain and scary, I can do it. You know, I have that confidence. I rebuilt the confidence. It ebbed and flowed, to be quite honest.

Beki: 25:37

Of course, yes, yeah, it's not a straight line, this whole development thing is it?

Theresa: 25:41

It is not at all, and there are some real lows, and then there are some real highs, and now I'm at that place that it was all worth it in the end.

Beki: 25:52

Yeah, I love that for you. I do. I think that I see the joy that you have in making the impact that you have in some of the projects that you've been in and the people that you've met right and the exposure that you've had. That's tied to your purpose. How does all of this affect your choices as you go forward?

Theresa: 26:14

To be planful. I really am not someone who just jumps at every little thing, and so when this opportunity was presented, as I mentioned, I did have to think about it, but I pushed myself by asking for only a couple of days to think about it. So, trying to be planful, but in a good amount of time, if that makes sense, not taking forever to make a decision that has been something I've struggled with in my career in the past is feeling confident about the decisions that I make. This one for sure. After those couple of days, and doing some research and talking with my trusted friend, I knew this was right for me, and so this is the start of a whole new career for me.

Beki: 27:04

Yes, and you know, as you look forward and you see yourself having maybe improved the speed right by setting those boundaries and things, what are the things that you hope going forward for this career choice, anything in particular that you're aiming to accomplish that you would want to share today?

Theresa: 27:28

Becky, I would love to be viewed as a subject matter expert in this field someday, Just as I had been in human resources. I was a source of knowledge and information as an HR professional. I want to be that source of knowledge in the field of sustainability.

Beki: 27:52

Yeah, and I see every reason to believe that. That's right in front of you as you go forward. Again, like you said, the goal setting. You see that in your mind's eye, I can hear that right as you talk about that and therefore you will demonstrate that same persistence toward that goal as well. Teresa, when you think back to that distinct inflection point, do I choose this or do I choose that? What might have been something that you would change about the path that you took, given what you know now?

Theresa: 28:27

I'm actually not sure that I would do anything much differently other than reaching out to a few other people in the field just to make sure that I understood what I would potentially be going into. That said, that actually would have just slowed down my decision-making process, and sometimes you do really have to just follow your instincts. That's what I did. I listened to my heart and my mind and I just somehow knew instinctively that this was going to be the right thing for me. I really listened to myself and so, having said that, I'm not sure that I would have done anything much different than how I approached all of this. The timing was right. This the timing was right. So much as we discussed is so transferable from human resources, and so, with that in mind and just knowing that, I was ready.

Beki: 29:35

Looking back, I'm very confident in how I handled it. That's fantastic and I think that's inspirational for anyone who's listening right, because sometimes we can't think through a decision. Sometimes we need to tap into how our body is feeling, what our intuition is telling us, and take the leap. You had a successful HR career prior to this and therefore, if you ever went, wow, I thought I would like this, but you, there's always that opportunity to go back into something again if that's what you would choose, or even choose something different because something else revealed itself. What I hear as you describe that is there was no wrong step, there was just this one. That was that much more satisfying for you, given where you are today and where you want to go. I agree, I appreciate you sharing your story with us today. Is there anything else that you would want to share with our listeners that I haven't asked you about yet?

Theresa: 30:35

You know, looking back I think I mentioned this a few times about the importance of expanding your network, reaching out to people and learning from others, and I think it's also helpful to remember that this is sort of a give and take experience. So, having been through this sort of challenging transition myself, giving back to others who are facing their own critical inflection points is really important. So, you know, we can graciously accept help when we need it, but it's equally important to return the favor by being available to other people, and sharing our experiences and advice can make a world of difference for someone else, and that is one of the reasons why I'm so happy to have been here with you today to talk about my journey, and I really appreciate this opportunity. Becky, thank you so much.

Beki: 31:42

Well, I just want to thank you one more time, because it's always a pleasure to speak with you and I love hearing your experiences and learning more about you any chance I get. So I very much am happy that you agreed to be on the show with me today and look forward to our next conversation. Thank you, becky.

Theresa: 32:01

It was my pleasure.

Beki: 32:02

To thank Teresa for coming on and sharing her inflection point today. Are you inspired by Teresa's story, like I am. Her transition required courage and self-awareness. Maybe you find yourself in a place where you need to speak your truth about what you like or don't like in your career truth about what you like or don't like in your career. When your leaders or others in your life see a future for you that doesn't match yours, you can choose to chart your own path. I see that as if you're ordering off menu. Sometimes the restaurant will substitute or cook to order, and other times you need to go to a different restaurant. It's the same with your employer they can't customize if you don't say what you want. If they don't have what you want or won't adapt, then you have choices there too.

Beki: 32:54

When faced with a decision, we're tempted to look at what we don't know and what we can't do. Yet Teresa was able to recognize all the skills and networks she had already developed in her career. If she could do it once, she could do it again. If she learned what she needed in the first career, she could learn it for the next, and this time with the benefit of experience. Where are you cutting yourself short. What are the foundational building blocks that can support you when taking a leap of faith? That's where courage comes in. It can be scary to do what Teresa did. She took the power of her conviction and told her boss that she didn't want to take that next level HR role offered to her. Saying no or yes can be frightening, and Teresa had to do both. Thanks for listening. If you found this episode helpful, share it with someone who could benefit from it. Until next time, I'm Becky Fraser, reminding you to integrate who you are with how you lead. Okay, bye.