Speaker 1: 0:01

If there's anything that my example can offer, it is that we do have sometimes not always, but sometimes more agency and more choice than we realize. So when I'm doing the career transition, work with anybody, and it doesn't matter what they're doing for a living at the time or if they're unemployed. It's to help them recognize what is within their grasp in terms of those choices, so that they can act on them in a way that they wouldn't have if they didn't realize the choice was there in the first place.

Speaker 2: 0:27

Hi, I'm Becky. Welcome to Short Story Long. In this podcast, we discuss ways you can integrate who you are into how you lead. Today, I get to explore my guest's journey, someone who went from feeling completely stuck and overwhelmed to uncovering his true potential through a powerful coaching experience. Every now and then, we set hopes for a career based on what we believed was possible instead of what turned out to be reality. My guest today shares an honest look at what it's like to navigate the complexity of organizational life, managing energy as an introvert and making bold career moves that are aligned with his personal values. He talks about making a meaningful shift in his professional life.

Speaker 2: 1:16

Alan Heyman is the founder of Peaceful Direction, where he is an executive coach, author and facilitator for experienced and emerging leaders. He specializes in guiding introverted professionals to thrive in leadership roles, especially during moments of transition. With over seven years of coaching experience, alan creates a safe, confidential space for clients to navigate challenges and unlock their potential. He is faculty with the coaching program at Georgetown University. As a lawyer and former journalist, alan brings a unique thoughtful lens to coaching and leadership development. Hi, alan, welcome to the podcast. I'm excited to hear about one of the inflection points in your life today.

Speaker 1: 1:56

Hey there, Becky, it's great to see you again and I'm so glad we get to have this conversation.

Speaker 2: 2:01

Yes, absolutely. It's always great to connect with you and I guess where I would like to start is just to jump into discussing that meaningful inflection point in your life and career. So maybe starting with just at that high level, how would you describe the inflection point that we'll be talking about today?

Speaker 1: 2:20

So we are going to rewind the clock way back to 2014, when I first discovered what coaching was and how it had a transformative impact on my career from that point forward, Fantastic, and coaching does have a tendency to do that.

Speaker 2: 2:34

You get a coach and all of a sudden it's like whoa, all these things that I didn't really realize and see in myself that now I can. So that's really fantastic. So, before you were working with that coach, talk to me a little bit about what life was like at that point.

Speaker 1: 2:52

It was very different from life today. It was extremely stressful. It was a grind, and the long and the short of it was I was working in a position that I thought I would someday retire from. I was probably in my mid-30s at the time and was running the communications shop for a large global nonprofit here in the DC area where I live, and this was an organization to which I had a personal connection. In their mission, my parents were donors. When I was a kid, I had friends who worked there, and this was a breathtaking span of control for a fairly young executive at the time. So truly, I thought I had gotten to the top of the mountain. And this was it. And probably it was about nine months or so into the job that I realized I was drowning and wasn't going to make it there unless I had some support, unless I had some scaffolding for that climb that I was making. And that is when I discovered coaching for the first time.

Speaker 2: 3:50

Yeah, so talk to me a little bit about what led you to the belief or understanding that you weren't going to be successful.

Speaker 1: 3:57

It was a very mission-driven nonprofit organization. Advocacy was part of its agenda. Nonprofit organization Advocacy was part of its agenda. And there were many days when I would come home quite late, had a commute as well, young child at home, and I wondered what exactly did I do today? What exactly did I move the needle on in terms of this great organization with its storied history and its important work?

Speaker 1: 4:22

And it was sort of like the combination of this grind, this feeling of disconnect from the mission, because I couldn't have a tangible sense of the impact and what the job itself was actually entailing on a day-to-day basis, which was, on average, I would have 45 to 50 meetings a week and almost all of them would be in my office.

Speaker 1: 4:46

And when I would have rare moments of conversation with the heads of the organization, I would say things like hey, I'm just curious, I'm still fairly new at this, can you tell me what your definition of success is for me in my role? And they would tell me things like take reporters out to lunch, couldn't leave my office very often and had a wonderful, glorious staff of media relations and other folks whose actual job it was to in fact take the reporters out to lunch. So I was kind of adrift, but I was also exhausted a lot of the time and it was a very frustrating experience and I spent a lot of the initial energy just getting to know the different moving parts of the organization. So I felt it wasn't something about familiarity, it wasn't about being the new guy, there was something else that was missing.

Speaker 2: 5:33

When you look back at that time with your current eyes, what is it that you see that you needed then, that you weren't finding?

Speaker 1: 5:43

I wasn't finding, first of all, my proper place within the hierarchy of the organization because I was in a new role. It was a role that hadn't existed before I got in it and didn't exist after I left it. And secondly, I needed some clarity on what it was that I was bringing to the table that was actually useful, because there was the answer I got when we had the series of job interviews that brought me into the role, and then life on the ground and the position itself was quite different. So I think, if anything else I would have to say, my initial engagement with that coach helped me find clarity of distinction between a couple of things that were kind of fused together in my head that I needed to pull apart.

Speaker 2: 6:24

Okay, yeah, it was all sort of mixed into this big messy pile, it sounds like, and being able to pull a couple of threads to be able to pull some of those segments apart. I'm also hearing there, too, that what you thought you were getting into wasn't exactly what you found when your boots hit the ground.

Speaker 1: 6:43

I think that's totally fair.

Speaker 2: 6:50

And the other thing that you had mentioned, too, was that you were looking for the extra scaffolding that the organization wasn't able to provide for you. What were the resources that were there, and what did you feel was lacking that prompted you to seek out help?

Speaker 1: 7:02

Absolutely so.

Speaker 1: 7:04

I had the experience of a few friends who worked there in different roles in different parts of the organization, but there was some context that I was able to get there Very useful.

Speaker 1: 7:13

Also, and this is kind of what led into the whole transition moment in the first place, I had the support of our chief operating officer, who was my biggest ally on the executive team, despite not being my boss, which should probably tell you something, tells me a lot, yes, yes, and this was a wonderfully compassionate but also very driven and dedicated person, and she had a lot of good counsel and good guidance to offer me while she was also going to coaching school.

Speaker 1: 7:43

And so I thought to myself I don't know what this coaching school thing is, but I do know it must be really important, because here's a person who's very busy, who has a very big job, who was commuting across multiple states to do the job every week and she's in coaching school. So one day, out of the blue, I just decided to ask her some more about it, and it sounded fascinating, it sounded important. Out of the blue, I just decided to ask her some more about it and it sounded fascinating, it sounded important and I asked her if perhaps any of her classmates might be interested in taking on any clients.

Speaker 2: 8:11

Powerful, absolutely. I'm noticing that you weren't asking her for that, and I can imagine that there were reasons behind that as well Very reasonable ones, I'm certain and so with that, I guess the thing that I would really wonder about is, as you started thinking about finding a coach and asking for those referrals, what is it that you were looking for that coach to give you?

Speaker 1: 8:36

I guess a bit of validation and reinforcement in the sense that I think it would have been very helpful at the time. It actually was very helpful at the time to hear somebody say I get that this is hard for you. I get that you are somehow expected to find all the answers on your own and figure it all out and be strong, and this is hard and there is a way through and we're going to find it together. Okay, that was the main thing in the work that I have done since as a coach. Uh, it was once suggested to me by by uh uh more experienced and wiser person that we we do well to validate our clients sanity Uh, and we do well to uh to always hold them in high esteem. And those are two things that I always got from my first coach as well.

Speaker 2: 9:24

It's such a pinnacle really of the whole coaching support system that we provide for a client is acknowledging. We don't have to agree, we don't have to view it the same way that they do, but we can acknowledge that they're in a certain situation based on how they're thinking about it, how they're feeling about it, and that they have it within themselves, like you said, to be able to solve it. There's that power, there's that ability there, absolutely, and it's amazing that you were able to really recognize wow, this could be really helpful for me. So, as you made that choice, how did you choose which coach?

Speaker 1: 10:03

It was an intuition thing, and it's the sort of intuition thing that you and I and all the other coaches I know talk about when we have these introductory conversations, once you get past the initial kind of what I would call paper screening topics, that we're all credentialed and we're all educated and we all have the experience necessary, it's who do I have a level of comfort with, who do I feel like gets me. And, uh, at the time there was a little bit of um, uh, even more of a filter on the experience than you would have today, because we didn't have zoom back then and my coach was out of state so we talked by phone. Uh, so it was more like just through the sound of our voices interacting together, which gives me the best feel. And in this case, the choice was pretty clear, although I think, given I was my coach's second ever paying client, she may have been a little bit surprised that I chose her.

Speaker 2: 10:54

In fairness, we're often very surprised in the beginning. Oh really, you want to work with me, with me.

Speaker 1: 11:00

Yeah, exactly yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:02

Oh, hey, okay, that's fantastic.

Speaker 1: 11:04

Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2: 11:07

So, as that relationship started to move forward, how did your view of the role and the decisions that you made based on that move forward?

Speaker 1: 11:17

I think a couple of things come to mind, and the first is to mention that my coach had a very different background to mine. She had a pretty significant and pretty impressive corporate career before ultimately jumping out to start her own business and had not yet done that when we were working together. So this was kind of side hustle territory for her, which worked out well, because I didn't want to talk to her when I was at work, so we would talk on the phone when I got home at night I was at work, so we would talk on the phone when I got home at night.

Speaker 1: 11:46

But at one point pretty early on in the journey, she almost did what I might describe as kind of breaking the fourth wall of coaching for a second, when I was describing a situation to her and she said you know, this is crazy, right?

Speaker 1: 11:56

And I was like, wow, you can do that, you can offer your opinion, you can validate me in this way Not something that she used often, but it was incredibly well-timed and incredibly useful to me as the client and something I've maybe done twice in my own coaching career, because it's pretty rare. It's special stuff. The second thing is there was a key distinction that started to take shape in my mind pretty early, which ended up being, in hindsight, the exact thing that I needed from coaching in the first place, and that was the distinction between my stuff and you know what kind of stuff I'm talking about, we all have it, we all have our blind spots and our limitations and our internal obstacles given and the institutional stuff. That was like gravity and therefore never, ever going to change. And so once I had that distinction firmly in mind and it took a while to get there, but once I had it, I knew exactly what needed to happen. It was not a close call.

Speaker 2: 13:07

Right and that idea that organizational gravity, that stuff not changing that. No matter what you do as an individual, you're not going to shift an organization that has a legacy of a reputation. They are that way because they have been designed to be that way and you're not in a position to be able to change that, because it's not just a person that chooses that path and that structure. And yet, for you, what I'm hearing you say is well, for me, I get to make choices, like I can move my stuff or at least shift it around or even maybe toss a few things, if I can really go down that path. What were some of the things that you really felt like you had to work through in order to really concretely make the decision that you made?

Speaker 1: 13:48

I think a lot of it was ego, frankly.

Speaker 1: 13:50

A lot of it was getting over the sorts of things that I was trying to tell you at the beginning of the conversation about how attached I was to the idea of this job in this organization and me as that leader and doing this important work for a very, very long time.

Speaker 1: 14:08

As that leader and doing this important work for a very, very long time, and you know, honestly, the idea of myself as the leader who was capable of pulling it off and there may be some context here in the fact that there wasn't anybody in that role before and there hasn't been ever since. I don't know. There were some reorganizations and moving people around and various things that I learned about that had happened after I left. So maybe it's the case that it wasn't possible for anyone to pull it off, I don't know. But letting go of all of those things and, just you know, kind of filing this in the category of incredibly useful growth and learning experience, plenty of stories to tell, new connections made and just kind of a detour along the way, because what ended up happening was I went back to my previous employer that I had left to take this job.

Speaker 2: 14:58

Okay, and you'd been a leader prior to this role, so this wasn't your first rodeo in terms of leading a team and being able to organize, manage, lead and really forge the path During this really challenging time in this particular place. What were some of the things that you learned about yourself as a leader?

Speaker 1: 15:19

I think I learned a lot about my limits.

Speaker 1: 15:22

As in you know, we talk now with our clients about activities that add energy and activities that drain it, and I could tell you now in hindsight that a lot of my days and a lot of my weeks were filled with activities that were draining for me.

Speaker 1: 15:37

So I learned a lot more about what that was and how it works and how it doesn't work. I learned about how to interact with different styles and different personalities and people who have different strengths and maybe people who will never have those strengths, and I learned how to navigate large, complex organizations with historical legacies. So I think the difference was yes, I had had leadership experience. Yes, I had been in charge of a team. Yes, yes, I had had leadership experience. Yes, I had been, in some cases were in multiple cities from the main office where I was working and a span of control of more than 100 people. I learned incredible lessons about delegation, oftentimes by having my own delegations stomped on from above where I was responsible for various budgets that would be added together something on the order of multiple tens of millions of dollars, let's say.

Speaker 2: 16:58

Okay.

Speaker 1: 16:58

And I'd be having a conversation with my boss about a $200 plane ticket and it just, it never ended the scale and the oversight and all of those elements coming together where you're like, but I just bought a pen.

Speaker 2: 17:13

I can't believe you're giving me a hard time over the pen, right?

Speaker 1: 17:15

Exactly, and so I learned a lot about the value of creating space for people to perform at their best, because I had been in environments where that was the case for me before and was very much not in that sort of environment in this workplace. And so I'm thinking to myself okay, you and many of your listeners are probably familiar with how communications operations work in organizations. We had a CEO who was line editing the press releases, and the CEO was probably six layers on the org chart above the people who were actually responsible for writing the press releases, and the CEO was probably six layers on the org chart above the people who were actually responsible for writing the press releases. How on earth are they supposed to be valued and feel like they're good at their jobs when it's got to go through that kind of layer of review and everything is subject to the red pen of the chief executive?

Speaker 2: 18:02

Right. And also the question that I often ask chief executives who are that deeply into the weeds is but who's doing the job that you're supposed to do if you're so busy doing everyone else's role?

Speaker 1: 18:17

That's right.

Speaker 2: 18:17

It's a very challenging place to navigate and yet so many people, that's what they're comfortable with, and so that's what they do. And it's really powerful what you're talking about there, because you were also talking about all the things that you were able to show the people who worked for you in that organization about what leadership outside of this organization looked like, and so there's this sneak peek of there is another way that these things can work. And then you went back. So talk to me a little bit about how did it feel to go back to the prior employer. Sometimes that works, sometimes less so.

Speaker 1: 18:56

It wasn't the same job and that was a difference. So it wasn't the same job, it wasn't the same team. It was to create a new function and a new business from essentially within the organization. So for a while when I went back I was by myself, and then I started adding a few team members here and there, but at the end of the day it was probably half a dozen of us when I left. It felt great to create something new. It felt great to know that to create something new, my boss, who I was now working for a third time, needed somebody who knew the ins and outs of that organization, because somebody coming in just from the outside wouldn't have been able to do it.

Speaker 2: 19:35

Okay.

Speaker 1: 19:36

And I'll tell you the moment that I truly knew I made the right decision to go back, and that was not something that happened at the office at all. So a few months into my tenure, the second time around, one of my colleagues on the executive team, who I had gotten to know fairly well the first time around, announced that he was leaving to go grab another opportunity in a related field, and so there was a going away party announced for him, and our organization did this fairly well. We liked our celebrations and I was thinking I don't know if I'm gonna go.

Speaker 1: 20:14

I'm an introvert. I get pretty drained by the end of the day, especially when it comes to social things on top of a work day, so I have to be pretty selective about what happens to my energy and also, like I have not been around for you know at this point, close to three years of this person's tenure, that he's now leaving. Is it appropriate? Is anyone going to miss me if I'm not there? Maybe I just won't go, against what I thought was my better judgment at the time I went and immediately when I saw who was there kind of around the table, not a huge space, not loud, not nightclub, not dance party, nice dinner. I just kind of relaxed into my body and I'm like I'm back with my people. I'm so glad I'm here. So that's what I knew I had come back for the right reasons to the right place.

Speaker 2: 21:01

It's so amazing when, somatically we have that feeling of belonging, there's all the cognitive things and there are all the feels. But when your body says, hi, I'm with my people, it's a whole different vibe with that and I know then later you moved into coaching. How does this experience inform how you coach people in your practice today?

Speaker 1: 21:28

I think it's a great question. I am always curious about how people are affected physically by things, especially because in various roles not just that one and not just in a positive way I've had extremely concrete physical impact from my work, impact from my work In the job that I left to tell you about the story with the going away party that I described. I was having digestive issues, I was having sleep issues, I wasn't exercising. So these things are showing up physically, sometimes before you even intellectualize them, and so I'm always curious about what is going on for clients, either because they're wearing it when they get into a session with me and I ask about it, or they've brought it up themselves and I'll throw out the classic hey, where did that hit you in your body? Or what are you feeling right now as you're trying to describe the situation to me?

Speaker 2: 22:17

Absolutely, and it's so interesting to hear you say it's how they carry it, Because even when we're on a video call we can see beyond the screen in some ways because of angles and just features and facial all of the things that tell us that someone is not physically comfortable in some way, shape or form. And recognizing that that's actually part of how you're showing up in the world and really participating in some of those conversations, I'm curious what other things have you carried forward from this inflection point into your coaching now?

Speaker 1: 23:00

It sounds a little bit flip, but I'll say it anyway. It's not something that I sought out, but I seem to have become somewhat good at helping people quit their jobs. Again, I didn't hang up a poster, it's not on my LinkedIn but I've had more times than I can count now where an engagement reaches the point where it's like I got to get out of here or they're seriously weighing whether they want to get out of there. So when it comes up in an executive or leadership context and it's not part of the initial kind of terms of the engagement, you know you have to be careful. You have to make sure you're understanding who's responsible for what in that environment. But that too is also why I started several years ago offering career transition coaching Not specifically around the quitting question, although that is very much part of it, because I've navigated so many career transitions of my own and been around the ones that my family have experienced. Walking through this stuff with somebody who is thoughtful and curious can make a big difference.

Speaker 2: 24:11

Absolutely. And the thing that I'm thinking about, too, is when you were talking about that coach that you chose in 2014 and that her life experience, her work experience, was different from yours. That it wasn't you were relying on her experience to guide you through, but it was actually. It sounded a little bit like, maybe because she didn't have the same experience. She had a different lens and a different perspective and, at the same time, sometimes, when we have lived that experience, there's a utility there too, and it's beautiful that you've actually figured out how to balance that so that you're not just the I quit coach, which would be really great. Branding yes.

Speaker 1: 24:57

No company would hire me to coach their executives ever again.

Speaker 2: 25:01

Unless you want to get rid of someone, right, and then we don't want to do that. Coaching anyway, right, we do not.

Speaker 1: 25:06

Outplacement is not the name of the game, but no, I think on experience.

Speaker 1: 25:09

You're exactly right, and I know this is a topic of much discussion in some coaching circles. My view is that you want to shoot for the middle. So I'm pretty steadfast about not coaching in environments, workplaces, relationships where I'm too comfortable and too familiar. The danger is you're going to substitute your judgment for that of the client. I've been here before. I've seen this movie. I know how it ends. Here's what you do, not a good move.

Speaker 1: 25:35

At the same time, I had most of my career prior to coming into coaching and facilitation in nonprofits and government agencies here on the East Coast of the United States. Not a lot of reach. So through coaching as a contractor for a few coaching companies, you and I overlapped at one of those for a while. That's how we met. Yes, I have been exposed to so many different sectors of the economy in so many different parts of the world. I have coached in fintech and finance and academia and frozen foods even, and knowing nothing about those things was not a hindrance.

Speaker 1: 26:10

One, because you bring your kind of unvarnished, objective, curious eye to conversations like that. And two, to some extent, leadership is leadership and some of my clients are very comforted by the notion that they are special and their problems are unique to the world. And some of them just love the idea that I just had and their problems are unique to the world. And some of them just love the idea that I just had a conversation with this about another client last Tuesday and I'm going to just anonymize and sanitize, but bring in some of those details so that they can see the different perspective. That isn't even mine.

Speaker 2: 26:42

Yes, and really we're coaching the person, not the industry, right, and that's when it really moves to be a separate need. It's about comfort and it's about that click between the two individuals, between the coach and the client. It isn't really about well, I'm an expert, because then we'd be mentoring or consulting, we wouldn't be coaching.

Speaker 1: 27:03

Exactly, and in recent years I've had a couple of things happen on this front.

Speaker 1: 27:08

One is that I seem to get hired lately by a lot of lawyers and I do have those initials after my name on my profile Um, there may be the belief that somehow having gone to law school makes me more qualified to coach lawyers than somebody who didn't.

Speaker 1: 27:21

I don't agree with that.

Speaker 1: 27:22

I do agree with the idea that if it gives you a level of comfort in being in conversation with me that I can use some of the same vocabulary or maybe have a little bit of the same lived experience, even though I never practiced, we're good. I'm happy to talk with you about that. The other is that earlier in my practice, when I was really curious about a lot of things and when I was trying, of course, to build a business and get as much work as I possibly could, I would say yes to just about everything, and some of the things that I said yes to were organizations or people or teams who really wanted somebody with a high degree of very specific technical expertise in addition to being a coach, and maybe were willing to take a look at somebody who didn't have that, and I was the somebody who didn't have that. Those did not go very well for me because it was very skill dependent and it was hard to break the person out of their context to get them to be self-aware enough to do the coaching.

Speaker 2: 28:24

Right. It was so heavy into story as opposed to into what's going inside of you. Absolutely, it makes me think about even what was inside of you throughout all of this transition. You today, right 2025. Looking back at you, 2014, what would you want your former you to know about who you've become now? It?

Speaker 1: 28:47

is incredibly difficult to answer that question because I think the experiences we have build us into the people we become and I don't want to like reveal the spoilers too early to my 11 years ago self. That being said, I think I probably would have endeavored to offer that person kind of similar to what my coach did, which is like you have choices, you're going to be okay, you will find a way through this that will be to the benefit of you and everybody else around you, and your relationship with work itself does not have to feel as stressful and terrible as it does right now.

Speaker 2: 29:33

Powerful insights, though in terms of wow, it doesn't have to be so hard it doesn't have to be so hard. And it is hard right now, and yet there is a path to an easier place to be and a more fulfilling place to be. Even if it's hard work, it might feel easier, right, that whole somatic piece of it. So when you think about all of those changes that have occurred, how do you see yourself different today?

Speaker 1: 30:01

I think that I am more adaptable. You kind of have to when you're running your own business. You just you never know what's going to come in the door or what's going to change overnight. I think I have gotten better at describing what I bring to the table, because I have to do it much more often than I did when I was interviewing for a new job, every three or four or five years. Five years and I think I know myself and what works well for me a lot better now that I've been able to examine it, live it, put it into practice and I feel like the work is serving my life rather than the other way around, which is, I know, an enviable position to be in.

Speaker 1: 30:57

Honestly, at this point, when a lot of people are losing their jobs or they're fearing that they Mm. Hmm, if you follow these exact 19 steps that I followed, you can have my fabulous life. So please pay me all this money to join my program or buy my book. There's so many people who do that out there and they're trying to sell me their stuff all the time. I don't want that and, at the same time, if there's anything that my example can offer, it is that we do have sometimes not always, but sometimes more agency and more choice than we realize. So when I'm doing the career transition, work with anybody, and it doesn't matter what they're doing for a living at the time or if they're unemployed it's to help them recognize what is within their grasp in terms of those choices, so that they can act on them in a way that they wouldn't have if they didn't realize the choice was there in the first place.

Speaker 2: 31:51

Yes, understood, and I guess the other thing that I'm pulling as a thread from when you were talking before is that you mentioned I'm an introvert and I have to manage my energy effectively. What are some of the things that you've learned to do in order to really manage your energy effectively? Because, like you said, you have to be in a very different seat now where you're talking about who you are, what you do and how well you do it. How do you manage that?

Speaker 1: 32:17

Ironic moment perhaps for a couple of introverts, but I could spend all day answering your question. I love this question. To me, you know, it's about understanding the difference between where your energy comes from and where it goes, and I know from early experience that sort of grabbing all the business that I could and filling the calendar as much as I could. I cannot coach more than four times in a day. Five maybe if I'm really pushing myself and hope to be effective by the time that last call of the day happens and by the time I leave this home office and go upstairs to my family. So I will take breaks, I will defensively calendar. I've had the good benefit now for a couple of years of working with somebody who helps manage my business operations and she and I defensively schedule. So if the week or the day is looking too full we'll put a block on it.

Speaker 1: 33:09

I'm also pretty aware of what times of day I have what type of energy available, and so I made the decision almost from day one in my business to not schedule anything work-related on Tuesday and Thursday mornings. I use that time for reading and exercising. My workday starts later and it goes later on those days, so I'm available, but that is protected time. I think the number one answer is protected time. The number two answer is breaks. The number three answer is strategic use of silence. The number two answer is breaks and the number three answer is strategic use of silence. So I spend a fair amount of my day when I'm not actively working with clients or having conversations like this one in silence, Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 33:51

And it's so interesting that you talk about the blocking of time, because if I'm doing an in-person presentation, I block a couple of hours after that just to sit with me and to your point right, not talking as much as possible. I'm a talker, I have a lot of words. I happen to be an introvert who has a lot of words right.

Speaker 2: 34:11

And so that's really powerful. So thank you for sharing those insights. I'm curious are there any questions that I didn't ask you that you think would be really important for my listeners to hear an answer to?

Speaker 1: 34:23

Wow, I wonder if there's any curiosity about kind of what we're seeing in the space right now as coaches, just because we're at a moment of uncertainty that maybe we haven't seen the likes of, at least in my lifetime in terms of the economy, in terms of the political situation in our country, what's going on in the world, etc. Absolutely I don't know. This is the thing that I always talk about with fellow coaches when we get together.

Speaker 2: 34:51

Yeah, so what is your view on that at this point in time? Where is it that, as coaches, we have the greatest opportunity to make an impact?

Speaker 1: 35:02

I think if we can help anyone feel more seen and heard and understood than they did before they ran into us, that's a win for everybody. And what I've discovered this year in particular that I was not keyed into before is that there are almost micro ways to make that happen. So I've been really focused beyond my signature career transition coaching package, which I've had for a number of years now. That used to be the only thing. Like you want to work with me on your career transition, this is the thing. I have free stuff now. I have worksheets, I have one-time coaching sessions. I have free office hours for federal employees who are displaced. That I've been doing March through June of 2025, maybe longer, because I'm realizing you can have a tiny impact on somebody with a 10-minute conversation at times and it really makes a difference and I feel like the more of those we can offer out there into the world, the more stable we're going to get, the sooner.

Speaker 2: 36:02

I couldn't agree more. I find that there is a real opportunity to, in whichever way or methodology that we might be able to get it out. There is just this idea of touching people's hearts in the way that their hearts need to be touched. There's so much stress, there's so much challenge for so many people and for a wide variety of reasons, and to be able to show that understanding and it makes me think about you feeling seen by that first coach.

Speaker 1: 36:33

Yeah, who couldn't see me at all, by the way, because we were on the telephone.

Speaker 2: 36:35

Exactly Talk about irony, right? Yes, so with the coach that you worked with, we've talked a little bit about how that was by telephone only. Were you ever able to meet with her in person or on video at all so that you could interact in a deeper sort of way?

Speaker 1: 36:54

Yes, and it was so much better and longer lasting than you even described in your question.

Speaker 1: 36:59

So much better and longer lasting than you even described in your question Because, as it turns out, this coach, in addition to having gone to the Georgetown program that I later went to as a student here in the DC area, has family nearby.

Speaker 1: 37:10

So we met up for dinner one time while we were still working together, when she was in town visiting, and we did a second small round of coaching in my second position that I left, the you know the problematic position for uh, which was zoom based and a little bit by phone, and uh she established and has built a very successful coaching company that uses a handful of outside coaches as contractors and I've been on her bench for the last two or three years pulling the circle all the way around and now serving her clients as their coach and sometimes facilitating her, which to me is wonderful evidence of the power of coaching and the strength of that relationship and the reason I believe you should never measure the value of a coaching engagement session by session because here we are 11 years, the value of a coaching engagement session by session because here we are 11 years later and that little coaching engagement that I paid for out of my own pocket on my nonprofit salary is still paying dividends.

Speaker 2: 38:09

Absolutely. The power of that is over the time of the relationship and it may even have suspensions or gaps in that coaching, and it may even have suspensions or gaps in that coaching and at the same time that relationship is there, there's a bond that's created in those relationships.

Speaker 1: 38:26

Yes, and I have clients who I've worked with for years at this point, and I also have clients who I've worked with a little bit and they pop up from time to time, on and off for years, and they're just kind of part of the extended universe is how I refer to it which is great.

Speaker 2: 38:40

I love it. Yeah, it's great. Hey, could I get just a session?

Speaker 1: 38:45

Yeah, or you want to take 15 minutes and catch up, or what do you think of this thing that I wrote? Happy to do it?

Speaker 2: 38:51

Absolutely. There are so many different ways that we can continue a relationship that doesn't need to be transactional or session by session. Absolutely. Not at all Love it so well. I've really appreciated the time that you've given me on this interview today and really just appreciate the conversation anytime we get to have one. So thank you, alan.

Speaker 1: 39:10

Oh, it's been so wonderful. I hope we can do it again soon.

Speaker 2: 39:13

This conversation with Alan was a great reminder that feeling lost in your career doesn't have to be the end. It can actually be the start of something new and exciting. If you've ever felt trapped in a role that doesn't fit or wondered how to unlock more of your leadership capacity, alan's story offers both inspiration and useful takeaways. You know when the role you're in isn't what you want it to be. Maybe it isn't clear what you want to do about it, but you can see the desire to change. Maybe, like Alan, you need to realize that what you have isn't what you thought you were going to get. Whether you find that external perspective from family, friends or a coach, it's important to get the thoughts out of your head. Once you say them aloud, you feel how they land differently. Alan credits his coach with his ability to see how his stuff was in his way. That stuff was his belief about what he thought he would get from the role, instead of what he was actually finding himself doing day to day. Over time, he was able to see that his vision wasn't matching with reality. Another insight from Alan's experience is that our body often knows and communicates our stress before we cognitively recognize what's happening. He talked about digestive issues, sleeping problems and getting out of his exercise routine. Sacrificing self-care is a signal that something is off somewhere. In coaching, we may ask about where you feel something in your body. Those who do somatic yeah, that's a fancy word for dealing with the body. Coaching includes focus on specific body areas or physical movement. That's part of my practice, though I'm more likely to talk about the energy management concepts that Alan raised. It helps you in making a conscious decision when you are not in fight or flight mode. Shifting how you perceive things and how you react during the day allows you to balance your energy for the day. It's never fun to be drained and exhausted, and the truth is you don't have to be. You can find ways to regulate yourself throughout the day. Some of those ideas came through from Alan in terms of time blocks and really just setting that quiet time no speaking during that time.

Speaker 2: 41:50

If you're in a situation where your job is draining you, not matching up with your hopes or expectations, spinning out of control or simply not what you want to do anymore, check in with your readiness to make a change, even if you're planning for retirement. It's a transition to a new reality. When I've coached individuals discouraged in their role. We have either found a purpose and connection to stay or work to get really clear about what was needed. If you leave a job without taking out the trash, you bring all those smelly issues with you. That means finding a thought partner or sounding board, not just to vent but to evaluate your situation. Also, take inventory of your body and how it's behaving. It's sending you a message about its state of being.

Speaker 2: 42:41

Tune in and listen to what is there. Alan had some twists and turns as he found the best place to land. If you listened to season one of this podcast, you know I did too. You don't need to be right the first time. Conscious consideration of what matches your goals and passes that gut check will steer you well. Are you interested in connecting with Alan to learn more about his story and the work he does? Find access to his LinkedIn profile in the show notes. Thanks for listening. If you found this episode helpful, share it with someone who could benefit from it. Until next time, I'm Becky Fraser, reminding you to integrate who you are with how you lead. Okay, bye.