Beki Fraser: 0:01

In my last episode I had a great conversation with Steve Jaffe about his layoff experiences and his insights afterward. He took from his personal hardship and translated it into wisdom for others. Layoffs are more common than many of us realize, and the way we handle them can influence not only the next career step but also how we show up as leaders in our lives and communities. This had me thinking, even beyond his valuable strategies for navigating the reality of a layoff, toward how we position and try to protect ourselves when the potential is there. Hi, I'm Becky. Welcome to Short Story Long. In this podcast, we discuss ways you can integrate who you are into how you lead. Today I'm offering strategies for building your skills as a leader. Let's break down what's important as you navigate the reality or the potential for a layoff. When talking to Steve, it truly stood out that there is a journey from devastation to resilience with layoffs. His early experience of layoff was filled with shame, isolation and confusion about his worth. Years later, after four experiences with it, his response shifted entirely, anchored in self-care, reframed beliefs and a stronger community lens. That growth is what leadership often requires the ability to take a personal hardship and translate it into wisdom for others. I've not been laid off, though I've definitely been the architect of them and the communicator to the impacted people. Those impacted people are not just those whose roles have been eliminated. They are also the people who have a job still. In those instances there's often survivor, guilt and deep fear of being part of the next wave of actions. One thing I know as my former self you might know her as HR Becky is that I found it soul crushing to communicate layoffs. Never did those conversations feel satisfying, no matter the business reality, because someone was losing their livelihood. Steve and I talked about the reality of good performers losing their jobs in a layoff. It happens all the time. It wasn't a personal thing that put someone on a list, it was a business decision. I'm not sure that feels any better when you're sitting in that room. It does matter when you are grieving the loss afterward. As a people leader, I think it's critical to know about this dynamic, and it seems many don't that the message feels personal, no matter the reason.

Beki Fraser: 2:52

Let's talk about this scenario holistically. Steve's first experience was a shock. It hadn't even occurred to him that he could be impacted. I don't want that for you and my goal today is to support your thinking, not only for the day of and after, but also as you are employed and waiting for the proverbial shoe to drop in your organization, no matter where you are in this process. It's fair to say. This too, shall pass.

Beki Fraser: 3:22

The question I ask you is whether you are prepared to take affirmative steps in a direction, toward what you want. Yes, you're prepared. Great, let's add to your skills in that regard. No, you aren't. Same answer let's prepare you.

Beki Fraser: 3:39

The obvious and clear-cut question is what choices do I have when I'm notified that I no longer have a position? To be honest, I think it's important to get straight-line, practical with you on this one. I'm just going to share a few key points that often get confused. First one right out of the gate, you didn't get fired. You were laid off. Yep feels the same, but it's very different.

Beki Fraser: 4:07

Fired is when you did something that caused the employer to terminate your employment. I don't care if you agree that you did the thing they think you did and they made a choice. I'm not here to decide right or wrong of the termination, only that there's a cause and effect. You see, getting laid off is different. You didn't do anything wrong and it's worth your time to keep remembering that as you leave this employer behind. The cause and effect is simply that the business made a decision and that decision affected your employment. It's not your responsibility. The impact is felt by you, but that's different.

Beki Fraser: 4:51

The second piece that I hear about a lot is when they didn't let you go back to your desk. It's not about you being persona non grata at the organization. Yes, it's a risk mitigation and safety strategy in some ways, but frankly that's not common enough to be the whole story. Mostly, it's about minimizing disruption. When you get notified, you're going to have feelings about being let go and you deserve to have those emotions. It's also true that other people are also going to have emotions and they get to have those too.

Beki Fraser: 5:31

Regardless of what you think in the moment, my experience is that it's absolutely awful to pack up your desk while the feelings are flowing within and especially around you. There's an element of shock that you're feeling and it takes time to work through that. What's not productive is for you to have to take on everyone else's feelings, the oh, I'm so sorry, or oh, I don't know what to say. And to that one maybe? So, um, shh, or my sister's brother-in-law's cousin is hiring and I can help you. I can put you in contact with them. Okay, yeah, but not right now. Right, I'm still processing that. I just lost my employment Offers for help, sympathy and their frustration of not knowing what to say not your burden to carry, not yours to deal with, particularly when you're trying to process your own emotions and pack up your stuff to go. You can have that return to you differently in terms of you can come back and pick it up another day, or maybe they ship it to you. Hr gives you guidance on that kind of thing.

Beki Fraser: 6:42

Another key point on this whole day of experience if you are given the option to sign a release in exchange for a paid severance of some kind, do not sign it immediately. You should be able to review that on your own to understand the details and perhaps even consult an attorney to make sure you understand it. I've had folks say that they wanted to sign it immediately and I've actually refused to let them do that. Signing the next day doesn't delay anything. In many states you have weeks to consider it. Take the time you need to understand it fully before you actually sign it. I'm not an attorney saying this, I'm a human saying you should never sign anything unless you understand what you're signing. When you're in a state of shock, you're not understanding what you're signing.

Beki Fraser: 7:40

Also, and this is so important to me, if you aren't okay to drive home, drive to a parking lot somewhere nearby. I mean seriously full respect, for I do not want to be here right now. So safely, get to a different parking lot and let those emotions flow through you. Call a confidant, ideally not one of those office friends who was just maybe trying to unload all of their feelings on you earlier, who was just maybe trying to unload all of their feelings on you earlier, right? So those are key mechanics for day of, in my opinion.

Beki Fraser: 8:13

If there's anything controversial in what I've shared, I'd be surprised. That said, if anyone wants to debate the merits of my comments, I invite you on the podcast. Let's talk it out. I'm always happy to learn something, so please reach out. If you think I'm completely off base, let's have it out. I'm always happy to learn something, so please reach out. If you think I'm completely off base, let's have a chat.

Beki Fraser: 8:33

But then there's the next days, the next weeks that come, and there are a few things that I strongly encourage you to consider as well, and Steve mentioned some of these as well. One of the first ones that I would talk about is taking an emotional inventory. Maybe you aren't a big feeler and don't like to talk about your emotions Okay, so just talk to yourself. Journal, make a list, do what you do. It's still important to acknowledge where you are feeling things like anger, resentment, confusion, sadness and here's a surprising one that I hear with enough regularity to believe that it's common relief Sometimes there is a release from obligation that feels like freedom. What you resist persists. So feel the feelings and accept that they are there. Some you may be able to release easily and others might be hanging on for a bit. Just notice the difference. It's fair to ask why this is important.

Beki Fraser: 9:36

Steve talked about the myth of meritocracy. How disappointing to discover that's a myth instead of a truth, this idea that if I work hard, I do the right things, I do what my boss has asked me to do, then I keep the job, I grow the job, I get promoted. But that's not really what it is sometimes. Sometimes we get a notification and we're told that we don't have the role anymore. Steve talked about the shame he felt, the embarrassment and the hesitation to talk about it. Oh yeah, that's why it's important to recognize those emotions. Those emotions will drive you to do things or not do things. They may be constructive or destructive. It's critical to know which emotion is in the driver's seat and whether the destination is helpful or harmful.

Beki Fraser: 10:33

Processing those feelings is important to do before you're in an interview. They ask you about your last role and suddenly you go off like an angry rocket about the failures of that employer. Oh man, I hope you didn't want that role. That's not your best self shining through, and you want your best self showing up at every interview that you have an opportunity to have. Naturally, before you get into that interview, you need to be able to identify what the job will be that you're going for, and this is an opportunity for you to really do a job inventory. What are the things you enjoy doing? When did you feel successful completing a project or a task? Who are the people you like to work with? What will you not put on your resume? Because your life would improve if you never had to do that thing ever again? For some, this is an opportunity to think of things beyond what you have been doing.

Beki Fraser: 11:37

One approach to thinking outside your experience is the Japanese concept of ikigai. That is spelled I-K-I-G-A-I, if you want to look that up. It's an exercise of finding your reason for being, and is often connected to finding rewarding work. There are four questions in this model that overlap, and those are what you love, what you're good at, what you love what you're good at, what the world needs and what you can get paid to do. Your profession is viewed as the connection between what you're good at and what you can be paid to do. Your vocation is identified as that pairing of where getting paid meets with what the world needs. The ikigai is where all four intersect. It's an interesting experiment because it is a conscious inclusion of all four factors. As you consider your next step, you could find yourself in the same industry and still with a broader experience. Because you go through an exercise like that, it's worthwhile to spend the time thinking outside of the patterns that you have been creating with your most recent employer.

Beki Fraser: 12:57

The other thing that you'll want to be thinking about is what do I want to say to people? What do I want to say to people when I'm networking? What do I want to say to people in an interview. Interviews, in particular, are intimidating. So practice, practice, practice. My friend and colleague, john Nero, will coach people to answer tell me about yourself with a statement that begins with I help. He has a whole process that he guides his clients through in terms of being able to speak to that in terms of I help, rather than reading through the resume that they should have read before you walked in in the first place. You can do mock interviews with friends and family and maybe hire a career coach like John to help you prepare for the search and claiming of your next role.

Beki Fraser: 13:51

Steve and I also talked about some other fundamentals, about self-care. Fuel your mind, body and heart in ways that support your healthiest self. You may have heard of gratitude practices, but there are others. I know a coach who has a resentment journaling process tied to burnout. You may have heard of gratitude practices, but there are others. I know a coach who has a resentment journaling process tied to burnout. There's the chance to do a dream list for retirement and beyond. It's the why am I working and what do I hope to achieve by doing this thing? This creates an opportunity to look beyond where you are, to keep you motivated for the task at hand. Journaling in general helps you organize your thoughts, even if you are writing through a stream of consciousness. As you read back through what you have written, you can identify key things that might get repeated or just strike you differently when you read back over what you've written. Steve acknowledged that having that self-care practice gave him the foundation from which to let some of the other things flow over him, like what he described as water on a duck's back.

Beki Fraser: 15:06

One other area that has been raised more recently that I think is critically important as we talk about layoffs, it's the people employed and feeling the stress of it. Yes, they have a check and, hopefully, benefits. They have the routine of work and they often have two other things at play survivor's guilt and job hugging. Yep, I said it job hugging. Whenever I talk about survivor's guilt with employees, I've seen shoulders and heads drop the relief of being seen. Why wasn't I on the list? I miss my colleague who helped me and I'm frustrated because I don't think I can do it as well on my own. I need their help and they're not here. The other phenomenon is that most organizations do not share a list of who was impacted by a layoff. That means you find out who is gone because they fell off your DM channels and groups. You send an email and might get an out of office or just the sound of silence from someone who used to respond lightning fast. This means that you repeatedly feel the loss of your colleagues and you need to be able to have a strategy to manage through that and feel like you can rebound and recommit to the organization. And that often leads to another concept of job hugging.

Beki Fraser: 16:40

Job hugging is different from the survivor guilt. It's when you hold tight to your current job and maybe that's because of job market uncertainty, lack of better opportunities or the perceived recklessness of changing roles without a plan. You know there are pros and cons to this. Since it's quite sensible to maintain security for yourself and those who rely on you, it is also true that we can lose ourselves to the fear and get stuck in a relationship with an employer that is absolutely toxic. Are you a job hugger? If you are, how do you feel about being a job hugger? Look, the reality is that the job market is tight. Opportunity may be hard to find. People may rely on you, and those needs must be met. People may rely on you, and those needs must be met and when that fear, concern or avoidance block out the possibilities that practice is standing in your way, you can hug your job while looking and applying for other opportunities. You want to build your own business. Create it as a side hustle so you have something if you are on that list the next time. It's also a chance to learn new skills and try new things. No, you may not get paid for the pleasure of this opportunity. What you do get is to gain experiences and skills that may be of interest to a next employer and skills that may be of interest to a next employer.

Beki Fraser: 18:18

The balance of this is that you don't want to burn out, working excessive hours and losing connection with other things and people that are important to you. Those self-care items I spoke about are important to do here, too. Recognize what you need as your foundation. One of the things that I talk about all the time with clients and, quite honestly, I used to say this when I was in human resources and I would be talking to other employees within that same organization yes, yes, I did and that is you should always be looking for your next role, always. There are a couple of reasons that I say that One of the biggest ones is when you get annoyed by the things that are happening for you within your organization.

Beki Fraser: 19:05

Sometimes it can be an extreme eye-opening experience to be able to go out and talk to other people and go wow, the grass is greener on my side and all of a sudden you feel more connected to your role and you recognize that some of those annoyances are just annoyances and you can find a way to work through those and resolve them. The other bonus of doing this is that it creates a network outside of your employer to be able to have people to talk to. You learn things about what other organizations are doing within your field, within your function, whatever it might be. That brings value back to your organization if you choose to stay, and it gives you perspective, no matter where you go. It also gives you practice for those interviews so that you don't fall out of practice.

Beki Fraser: 19:56

When I talk to people and they say oh my gosh, it's been 10 years since I've had an interview. Yep, you're 10 years out of skills and it doesn't change a whole lot, but it changes enough that you may want to go out there and practice on roles, even if you're not thinking that you're ready to make that change. It also helps you recognize that there are opportunities that are out there and I know employers might be looking at me with a little bit of side eye right now as I'm like no, no employees go on out and interview. Here's the thing. You don't want people working for you. If they don't want to be working for you, let them go so that you can bring someone else in who wants to be there and also those who are able to go out and identify other opportunities for interviewing and talking to organizations outside. Like I was saying, it brings back new ideas, new perspectives and sometimes a greater connection to the work that that individual is doing.

Beki Fraser: 21:04

I know I've dropped a lot of information for you here today about what happens with the layoff, how you can react, regardless of which position you're in with respect to those communications and those opportunities to look forward for yourself. So here's your skill builder challenge, if you choose to accept it, and it's really an inventory. It's take inventory of your next role. If you're in that place of survivor guilt, inventory the feelings that you're feeling in that survivor guilt. And if you're job hugging, inventory your hug. Write down how much of your identity and worth is tied to your work. Recognize what is valuable about how you help organizations, even if you're not employed by one right now, and what part of your work, if any, would you do for free to help a friend, because those are the kinds of things that you know that you actually enjoy doing, enough that you would be willing to extend that to a friend. Using these kinds of things, you can consider where you are and where you want to go in your employment journey, while your employment with a particular organization might be tenuous and at risk because they make decisions that can affect your employment. That vision is one thing you do own and no one can take that away from you.

Beki Fraser: 22:44

I'm sure we will revisit these topics, since it's a common inflection point and it's a hot topic right now. For example, I spoke from the perspective of the employee impacted in this case. For the most part, I have a whole different episode in me to talk to people leaders who are facing these circumstances. Change is uncomfortable, sometimes frightening, and there are a couple of things that I would just remind you to keep in mind. Wellness efforts are not extras, but leadership disciplines, and they're foundational for showing up in hard times. I'd also encourage you to push against any kind of isolation, share about the setbacks and ask for help to reduce any stigma that you might feel and create community.

Beki Fraser: 23:39

I also encourage you to consider steve's thoughts about processing your grief. It shows up in body language and in tone and in a variety of other ways. Leadership requires integration so that you're able to communicate that with a steadiness and a confidence that comes through, that doesn't feel angry anymore. Success to me is tied to capacity building and service, and that aligns with the idea that leadership is about developing others and charting paths, not clinging to status. Whatever that role is isn't who you are. You are more than your job. Resilience isn't avoiding loss. It's preparing for it with strength and clarity, and I wish you the best in terms of going in that direction. Thanks for listening. If you found this episode helpful, share it with someone who could benefit from it. Until next time, I'm Becky Fraser, reminding you to integrate who you are with how you lead. Okay, bye.