SPEAKER_00: 0:00

But breakthroughs aren't permanent until you practice them over and over and over. You don't you might have a breakthrough watching a video about how to drive a car, but until you get out and do it over and over, you can't master that move. Just like it's but once you do it over and over, it becomes second nature. And it takes that those times for those new neural pathways to take in. You can't bake a great lasagna in 10 minutes. It's going to take some time.

SPEAKER_01: 0:31

Hi, I'm Becky. Welcome to Short Story Long. In this podcast, we discuss ways you can integrate who you are into how you lead. Today I'm joined by Greg Stevens, someone who knows a lot about what it really takes to communicate well and lead effectively. Greg is a communication consultant and executive coach with a business degree from Baylor, and he's also a certified professional behavior analyst, master certified trainer, and corporate executive coach. But beyond the credentials, Greg brings a wealth of lived experience. He's spoken on big stages, facilitated tough conversations, coached leaders at all levels, and literally wrote the book on rebuilding relationships, Build New Bridges, The Art of Restoring Impossible Relationships. Over his 25 plus years, he's worked across Fortune 500 companies, national organizations, pro sports, advertising, tech, healthcare, small business, and even government agencies. He's seen leadership and communication challenges from just about every angle. And today we get to learn from that perspective. Let's talk about a key inflection point in your life and career. Welcome to the podcast, Greg.

SPEAKER_00: 1:46

Becky, thanks so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_01: 1:50

Yeah, yeah. So let's just like dive in right to the crux of the matter, that inflection point, right? So what is the situation that you were facing and the change that you face that we'll be kind of digging into today?

SPEAKER_00: 2:04

Yeah, I think it all stems back to when um I was asked to be out on my own when I was very young. I was 17 years old. Uh my dad was uh a preacher at a church, and uh we were just outside of the Dallas area. My school was in the Dallas Independent School District. And my dad came to me on a Saturday. He said, Son, he said, uh uh your mom and I decided to leave the church, and we're uh resigning tomorrow. You graduate from high school on Tuesday, we're moving on Saturday, moving to East Texas, and uh here's five families that said they'd put you up for the summer. You need to get a job, pay them rent, and figure out what you're gonna do with your life. Go into the military, uh, get a job, go to college, but uh in a week you're on your own. And so I had a I had my car and my clothes, and that was it. And that was a real inflection point, in my opinion, that affected everything after that point. And there's many more along the way, but everything came from that place where I was kind of pushed out of the nest, not in a mean way. My dad told me he said, Son, I'll never lay you starve, but never make the mistake of asking me for money.

SPEAKER_01: 3:20

Right, right. Absolutely. It makes me think of I received luggage for my high school graduation, but not quite as stark of an inflection point as what you're describing here. The message was there, but not necessarily the timeline, right? And so I'm curious when you think about, you know, your life prior to that conversation with your dad, what were your expectations at that stage about what your timeline would be for figuring life out?

SPEAKER_00: 3:50

Yeah, I uh I thought I was gonna be able to have at least the summer. I didn't even know you had to apply to colleges. I just thought you went and paid and went to college. I uh my family had my dad had a doctorate, but he got it later in life. And um, so I didn't didn't really have any idea. And I was expecting a basketball scholarship, and I ended up in a wheelchair my senior year, and so my basketball aspirations were gone, but my grades were great. And I thought, you know, I'll get out here and I'll be able to do uh have some time, but I just didn't have any time. And uh I didn't even know uh another inflection point I have to say, it made me really take a good hard look at what I want to do. And I'll never forget, I knew I wanted to go to college. There was no if, ends, or buts. I and I knew I had to pay for it. Um I remember my mom, or I went and visited them one time during the summer, and my mom took me to a place called East Texas Baptist College, it's outside of uh Marshall, Texas, out in the middle of nowhere. And they showed me the campus, and it was sad. Nothing against the school. It was just that a place, and my mom looked at me, she said, Son, Baylor's a dream. East Texas Baptist is a reality. You can live with us, you can do this. And in that moment, basketball had been taken away. I was out on my own, and I knew in that moment, I said, it went the other way for me. I knew in that moment, that was a determining moment. I knew I was going to Baylor because I saw it. It what is life if I can't live out some dreams? And I made that decision based on having to be out on my own. And I made made it to Baylor and did it in four years and paid for all of my school.

SPEAKER_01: 5:45

Yeah, yeah. And so it is interesting, right? It sounds as though she was basically saying, look, this is the safe choice. If you do this, you'll still get the degree, everything will be fine. And Baylor, wow, that just feels too far of a step, that dream that she talked about. When you think about what that triggered within you, if you put yourself into that younger version, right, of that 17, 18-year-old young man, what were the thoughts that were going through your head when she said, that's a dream, that's not something you can achieve?

SPEAKER_00: 6:22

Well, until that moment, I didn't really, I don't think I ever knew how to take a stand for myself or what I want in the world. I had worked hard at basketball and other things, but in that moment, it was a decision that it was it was visceral. And I've had it a couple other times later in my life that I can't do this anymore. I have to do something else. And I notice it when it shows up, and even recently, shifting in my career, you just know there's something deep within, and I can't to deny it would be to I don't think it's living. I I think life is lived on that edge because uh it is frightening, it is scary. But I also believe being pushed out of the nest, it was like a two months before that moment happened, that being pushed out of the nest showed me that oh my gosh, the world is not fair. And if it's not gonna be fair, I'm gonna go for what I what I want in the in the world. I'm gonna uh I'm not gonna settle for what just is just offered me. I'm gonna go out and do something more.

SPEAKER_01: 7:39

Yeah, and and it strikes me that you say it's a visceral feeling. To me, that means that it shows up in like mind, body, just like a physical boom. When that happens for you, can you describe what that sensation is like for our listeners who may not have ever had that moment yet?

SPEAKER_00: 7:58

Yeah, it's it's uh uh putting it into words is interesting because visceral is closed about, but physically, what it does for me, it's like it's a defiance that runs through your body. My body uh for me, it comes from my gut. Uh, different people have different uh body experiences, and for me, it's my chest and my gut, and it's just like there's something that tightens and it says, I can't do this. I uh there's no other way to go at that moment. And it it and the answers come because it is, it's from your body, your muscles, and everything within you knows, I think. And then when you make that decision, it's like, what did I just do?

SPEAKER_01: 8:45

Yeah, and I notice even as you think about that, there's this inhale, exhale, the body relaxes, all of that tension wherever someone holds it in their body. Like you said, for you, gut, chest, and for other people, maybe neck, shoulders, whatever that might be. And that's why I ask, right? Because so often we think, okay, a visceral feeling. Okay, so like it was a moment. No, like there's no unlocking this, you know, it is my life has just shifted into a different direction. I can no longer go back to believing or feeling the way that I did before. And this is really what I talk about with that inflection point, right? Is I have to make a choice here. And my choice is going to be to challenge myself to achieve that dream. So when you think about that decision to go to Baylor, what were some of the things that you had to do? Like you said, you didn't even know you had to apply, right? So tell me, what was the scramble like?

SPEAKER_00: 9:46

Well, I had to apply. I had to take, it was interesting. I think back then the application fee was maybe$200. And I had$400 in my bank account. So it was half, and it was like you might not even get accepted. But I threw that, you know, is to me, it was like gambling. Okay, I'm gonna throw this out there. Uh, I had to apply for grants. Uh, the other thing was was since I had no um financial support, the more I was more likely to get a grant. I was more likely to get a loan because I was completely on my own. I had employment because the family I lived with, the gentleman gave me a job. And in my book, I talk about that. He talks about it in the in the acknowledgment at the very beginning in the forward. But in that moment, there's all these things I didn't know that I needed to do. I needed uh uh clothing, uh all of the different things. I had what I had, and then uh there was just it was take one thing at a time. So, okay, you got to get an application, you gotta get accepted, get accepted, you gotta find find a dorm, you gotta find the dorm. Are you gonna be on the meal plan or not? How are you going to pay this? And uh, because of course they want their money up front.

SPEAKER_01: 11:06

Right, right. And and reasonably so to some degree, right? And and one of the things, well, there are two big things that really stand out to me as you're talking about that. One is that key element of take it one step at a time. And it is also really resonating the gentleman who wrote in your foreword for your book, right? This person who took you into his home with his family, presumably, and also offered you an opportunity for gainful employment. So it builds you up, it builds up your bank account, it builds up your experience, all of those kinds of things. And that just screams of the support of people who are around you and how when you're in need, there's an opportunity to accept those things that people give to you. Looking back at it now, what kind of support do you see that was provided beyond him?

SPEAKER_00: 12:01

Oh, um, that's a great question. It's still happening today in so many ways. I I find it's hard many times for people to ask for help. And we don't verbally do it sometimes. But if people just see you struggling, they there's a compassion I think that most people have. Uh when I had when I went for a job, I'm putting myself through school. Oh, we want to help you because you're out trying to do something. Uh when I was in school, so many of my friends, their parents were paying for everything most of the time. And their parents thought, wow, you're putting yourself through school. What could we do for you? Uh my roommates' parents were always uh pretty uh helpful. And uh people came out and I tried to find jobs and uh just I don't know. I think the friendships and the people you run into, the answers aren't there until you get out and do something. So many people, I don't know how I'm gonna do it. When you get into action, the opportunities show up, but they don't show up until you get into action.

SPEAKER_01: 13:15

Well, that goes back to that comment that you made about one step at a time, right? I I need to submit the application, otherwise, I don't have a chance of getting in. Once they accept me, then I have these additional steps and simultaneously all of the loan paperwork and the grants and all of those pieces. So there's a an order of operations, if you will. But if you don't start the wheel in the beginning, then there is no momentum, there's no traveling anywhere. When you think about this, you know, this is like you said, formative time in your life. Pretty young when we go off to university right out of high school. And what are some of the things that you learned about yourself through all of this at that time?

SPEAKER_00: 14:00

Great question. Thank you, Becky, because I learned resilience, uh consistently getting up. I I think most people want things to fall in line perfect. It's never going to do that. And you don't fail if you keep getting up. And uh over and over, I would run into a battle. I'll never forget my last semester at school. The grant wasn't coming through. There were some mistakes and everything else. And Baylor allowed me because they said, Well, you're supposed to get this. I got my final check to help out with my loan and for the final semester the day before I graduated.

SPEAKER_01: 14:45

Excellent timing, really, because it's better than after, right?

SPEAKER_00: 14:48

Well, I couldn't have walked the stage had I not done it. Yeah, it's so interesting. It took the entire semester. So I lived with this weight over my head. I'm gonna add to the debt, I'm gonna get to finish. Are they gonna give me uh a diploma? So this consisted throughout. I mean, uh jobs I had to take. Um, there were no job, just like today. So many people talk about the job market being tough. When I was in, the only job I could find the summer before my senior year was I ended up selling cemetery property door to door in Houston, Texas. And so, but I made enough to pay for that next year. Uh I made enough to pay for the that entire year. I stayed one extra semester. That was a semester I was talking about, but I made enough in eight weeks to put me through a year of school. And I got slam doors slammed in my face. The resilience I had to have is the key. And I also realized I found out what you know my medal was, what I could do, what I could step into. And at some level, I became what I felt like was bulletproof because I could go up to anyone at any time and start a conversation and get in deep with someone because of the experiences I was having.

SPEAKER_01: 16:09

Yeah. Yeah. And I know that that connects so much to the work that you're doing now, that getting into the conversation and going deep so quickly. How do some of those skills and insights from that period of your life still carry through into some of the experiences, whether it's how it affects you or how you interact with some of the folks that you're helping?

SPEAKER_00: 16:34

Yeah, for me, I think all of this, the biggest idea for me, if I were what followed through, is getting comfortable with being uncomfortable. Because in a difficult conversation, the emotions are flying, you don't know what to do. What is it like if I can just sit back and calm myself? What was that look like? Turn my brain back on, engage with it, just know also this is just temporary, this is gonna pass. And even like a good feeling passes, a bad one does too. And we tend not to think about that. We think it's gonna last forever. They don't. Uh it's a short, short amount of time in the reality of it. But until we do that and do it over and over, I think you also your comfort, you have to build it. You have to get uncomfortable over and over and over to do the kind of work I do. Because many times I'll do a family mediation, and yeah, it's uh it's tough when or I do mediation with business partners, all of that. And uh I'll get in and work with them to try to heal the relationship. And there are things that are said, there's uncomfortable silences, and sometimes people want to talk and I'll stop them and say, let's go back to that, let that land for a minute.

SPEAKER_01: 17:56

Right. Sit with it, sit with it and hold on to what you just heard and see where that's going to go. And when you think about all those times when you had that cloud of concern, whatever it might have been, am I going to get accepted? Am I going to have the money I need? And you talked there a little bit about calm myself. What are some of the things that you do to calm yourself?

SPEAKER_00: 18:24

Well, for me, I think this is the human body. Breathe. They always tell you in martial arts, first thing, breathe. Working out, breathe correctly. I've also learned recently you need to breathe through your nose, not your mouth. And uh, there's different levels of energy that comes with that. But when you breathe deeply, it starts to shift the nervous system back to where you need to be. Then the other thing is ask yourself internal questions. I ask people to find the questions that really pull you forward to be your best. Because when questions turn the brain back on, when we go into fight or flight mode, a question actually reverses the process. But here's the thing: it takes time for adrenaline to get out of your system. So I can ask questions, begin to turn my brain back on, but it takes time to wash that adrenaline out, sometimes 10, 15, 20 minutes, maybe more. But if I can have my brain on, that's all I need in that moment. I let I actually try to get let let that tension just try to go, know it's there, but turn my brain back on by those questions. And questions are specifically like, what is it I want in this moment? How can I be my best right now? One of my friend gave me when I feel attacked, how can I open my heart right now? That's a big one because I believe that when we open our heart, a whole lot of things show up that wouldn't normally do that. And it's hard to in a business situation when you feel like you're being uh taken advantage of and that it's heated, and then all of a sudden I don't want to open my heart.

SPEAKER_01: 20:11

Right, right. You just wounded me. Why would I be nice to you at this point in time? And and it's so interesting because, you know, in the work that I do, sometimes I have people who are coming to me and saying, Oh, Becky, you know, after that meeting, this person came to me and and said this. And this wasn't true some time ago, right? And and this is the growth that we go through. But now I'm able to put that through a lens of, well, that's what their experience was based on what their intake was. And I guess and and look, I still get triggered, I still kind of get annoyed sometimes and things like that. But for the most part, I look at it and say, is there anything I can learn from that? But I'm not going to take on what their stuff is because that's not for me to carry. And I'm betting that you, like me, didn't graduate from university and go, whew, you know, I'm just gonna see how can I open up my heart in these moments. What were some of the things that you learned along the way that brought you to the place that you are now?

SPEAKER_00: 21:20

I took classes like landmark, I took other types of training and reading, but it's more than that. I actually applied it. I went out and did it. One of the things I found is all the insights you have in a class, they're great. Breakthrough thinking, but breakthroughs aren't permanent until you practice them over and over and over. You don't you might have a breakthrough watching a video about how to drive a car, but until you get out and do it over and over, you can't master that move. Just like, but once you do it over and over, it becomes second nature. And it takes that those times for those new neural pathways to take in. You can't bake a great lasagna in 10 minutes, it's gonna take some time. So you've got to be able to make sure you give yourself the time to practice what you've learned. I taught a lot of classes, and the way to mastery is to give yourself time after a class to practice it.

SPEAKER_01: 22:24

Yes, absolutely. And doing the reps and going in there and then recognizing there was uh someone that I had spoken to on the podcast earlier this year who was talking about the difference between the first and the second presentation is the biggest improvement. And beyond that, you can incrementally make those improvements. But from one to two is when you sit back and you go, okay, that did not go as planned, as it turns out, and I need to figure out what I want to do with this. And it strikes me too, because I know how much you were involved in crucial conversations and all those pieces, and then you made the decision to write your book. What was it that prompted you to say, I have something to say that is unique to me?

SPEAKER_00: 23:14

Yeah, it it'd been uh that's one of those things I it's the one decision I put off for so long. I loved working with crucial learning and teaching crucial conversations. And the universe just said there's something more, and you need to put out your message because it's unique and it's truly shows why crucial conversations works, you know. It's it's the true application of it, and so it I tell people all the time that was a 20-year pregnancy. I should have had that baby a long time ago, but it's okay because I also learned so much along the way, and I uh I love my relationship with crucial learning, they've been great, and I love that I've got something to say about the application, and it's something I I when I taught classes, I would see people go, Oh, that was the best class, thank you. You know, I really tried to make it my own and show the application, but I found that I need to spend time with people holding their hand to do that because most of us we want the results, but we want them quickly. Well, the quickest way I found is I take in 20 something years and put it into 20 weeks, and but that's just it. It still takes time to bake. And 20 weeks today, people are like, oh, that that that's too long.

SPEAKER_01: 24:42

That's too long. I can't do that, right? And you know, your 20-year baby is a beautiful baby, right? That's offering all of these opportunities for people to really go deeper and really participate with themselves in that process. And I know how important that is to you. And what's really powerful is I link it back to that inflection point, right? Where it's it's take it step by step. What is the first thing that I'm going to try on this? And if that doesn't go as planned, how am I going to adjust and adapt so that the next time it gets me closer to where I'm trying to go? So it makes me think about how you had a direction and an outcome, but you could not have ever designed the plan to get there. When you're working with your clients now and they want to understand, you know, step by step, what is it that I need to achieve in order to meet this goal? What's the answer you give them?

SPEAKER_00: 25:42

Becky, I just want to say that's where you're great. That's uh my experience with you from our podcast and working for this one and looking, you're a very processed person, and it creates clarity. And I think when you're doing anything, you have to have clarity. What's the next step? You can take the next step, you can't take all of them at once, there's just no way to do it. You you do one step at a time till the end. I've got some processed people who I've coached, and they said, Oh no, I'm not worried. Once we put the process together, I'll be done. Because they they're they're that confident about the process. So when someone asked me about the process, I walk them through. We're not gonna throw you on the deep end right away. We've got to first walk you through, and everything I do in my program, we actually ask them to do outside the program. So we even set up agreements and talk about what respect looks like at the beginning of a class and how we're gonna hold each other accountable. We get to know each other, we build a relationship. Then I start with good things, easy things, things of acknowledgement that are going to put it add to, like Stephen Cubby said, that emotional bank account, build that up and begin to talk about the hard things, and then you gradually get up there. So in my programs, people come in with uh a list of relationships they want to improve, the ones they want to clean up, and the ones they want to complete. And they're all different conversations. And I don't even see the list, I have them keep those lists and they come and give their experience, what they learn from it. But it's a process to go through. But one of the biggest things is first taking responsibility for your life. This and that's why I tell people consistently this is the one quote I do uh first in all my talks is everything in my life I create, promote, or allow. You have to take total responsibility, then you can say, What's the next step? What's the next step? If I don't take responsibility in my communication relationships, I tend to blame others and remain stuck, or I tolerate things that I shouldn't be tolerated. Shouldn't I don't like the words that I don't want to tolerate?

SPEAKER_01: 28:04

Yes, absolutely. And it makes me think too, in terms of this idea of taking responsibility and owning the consequence of a choice that you make. And it makes me think about that conversation you had with your mom. And she says Baylor's a dream. And so your life went the course that it did because you made the decision or your body made the decision to go to Baylor. And I'm curious, uh what do you think would have been different if you had followed her direction?

SPEAKER_00: 28:42

So such a good question. I my guess is that I would have probably settled on a lot of things in life. Uh because it I it to me, it was such an inflection point when I just had to, it was like I said, that visceral feeling. I think if I would have said it would have been easier to say it's okay the next time, it's okay the next time. And I was fortunate that I did that. Does that mean it couldn't have changed later? I also believe you can always change. Right. And so it may have taken me longer in my true uh my uh my experience would have been completely different. I wouldn't have had the massive amount of friends that I have, I wouldn't have had the uh all the experiences that I have had, I would have just had different experiences. Personally, I like the ones I've had.

SPEAKER_01: 29:36

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 29:38

The goods and the bad, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 29:39

Exactly, because that's what makes us who we are today is the accumulation of all of those experiences. And I love what you said there too about we can change the course later. We're never in a spot where we can't go back, but we can go forward and shift our course. And it makes me think about. I think you and I have talked about my decision when I got the acceptance letter to go to Yale, also a visceral, I must go. And it just was in my case, just a calming of my body of just knowing this is going to happen. And then there was nothing that anyone could say or do that kept me from the belief of I will just find a way to make this happen. And I think that there is a piece of us that just starts to grow and blossom when we make those kinds of decisions. One of the things that you talked about for yourself was that resilience. But there's usually a little bud somewhere in within us that that blossoms from. What would you say was that bud for you in terms of that resilience within yourself?

SPEAKER_00: 30:52

Yeah, I I know the moment that happened. Um, when I was in high school, uh, I had a coach, uh, my freshman year of high school, Tommy Collins, and I've had him on my podcast, and he was an amazing coach, and he would cuss you up and down and yell at you, and just people wouldn't be able to handle it today. He was worse than Bobby Knight for sure. And he came to me one day after practice, he said, Stevens, I I know you've got more in you. What's going on? And he said, and I couldn't say anything. He said, Come out with it, son. I said, You're yelling at me all the time, coach. He said, son, if I wasn't yelling at you, I don't care about you. He said, I see potential. I want to turn that. He said, You should have me chewing on your butt every day to the point you've got blood dripping from your butt when you get coach chewed my butt today because that means I care about you. When he told me that, I knew he really did, that shifted everything. That was the bud of saying resilience, resilience. Just because it's hard, someone's yelling at you, you're embarrassed, whatever, you're growing. That's the potential you have.

SPEAKER_01: 32:15

Yes. And one of the things that really strikes me is earlier you had talked about even recently, in terms of career shifts and changes and things like that that are happening. What it also tells me is that this wasn't, and this is so true for people that I talk to, it wasn't a one and done. It wasn't, I had this one inflection point, and then life was just, you know, steady state after that. No, it becomes this series of events where which is the path that I will take. And with that, it m it makes me really ponder this idea with you about when we're facing those decision points, those inflection points. And we say, I could do A or I could B, and who knows, maybe there's a C D and E in there as well. What are the things that you think are the most important for people to be thinking about in terms of the choice that they make?

SPEAKER_00: 33:14

Uh that's such a good question because I think what you just said, it's not typically just A or B. Many times that's just what we see. And in the moment, it goes it goes along with, you know, the fear that we have, and fear always distorts. So if you're fearful about a decision, you've got a distorted view in the first place. That's why I say coaching is so important. That's why I think mentoring, you have good friends, people you can run it past that care about you. And it doesn't mean you always follow what they think or say, it means you consider it and look at your life and be responsible for the decision when you finally make it. I think it's so powerful, but you have, I think it's important you use those around you, their eyes, their view, because they see things you'll never see. I tell people all the time when you walk in a room, what do you see? Well, you see probably 30, 40 percent. Everyone sees what's behind you and the sides and everything. You don't see it because you're in this one thing. It's not that your lens is wrong, it's just incomplete. And that's what we have to do. We have to get a complete view of what we're doing. And sometimes we do make those decisions by emotion, and sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't. And those are inflection points where you get to learn. And I'm a hard-headed person because I continue to get up and sometimes do the same thing or do something even more moronic to the next one.

SPEAKER_01: 34:48

Exactly. It's why have I not learned this lesson yet? I've had 50 chances to learn and I still stumble on the same block, right? And and it's just those opportunities. And the theme that I continue to hear, right, is recognize that you're not seeing the whole thing, bringing other people in to support you and making that picture fuller and really understanding what's happening. And when you realize it's not going to be easy, accept that and take the first step toward the direction that you want to go and really get there. I've just really enjoyed our conversation today so much, as I always do, Greg. And I'm wondering if there's anything that you would want to talk about that we didn't discuss or questions that you might have for me today.

SPEAKER_00: 35:36

I love your insights. And from what we've talked about, I'm gonna kind of throw a question for you is based on what you've seen, but what how we've engaged, what would you tell our audience about what your engagement with me and what the work we've done and the work you do, how important is that?

SPEAKER_01: 35:59

Yeah. So I think, first of all, the story that you've shared with us today and the perspective and the insights that you have about yourself. It's it's not surprising to me that you have an answer for me when I ask those questions because I know how much you've done the work for yourself and how much you recognize the value of the work that you support other people when they're doing it. And naturally, I'm right there lockstep with you. I I share that same passion for, well, what do you want? Let's go get it. And and really just like arm in arm, let's do this. Now you've got a buddy. You may not always want me as a buddy, but I'm going to be here with you. And when you want to push me away, I might hold you tighter, right? Because it's just the tough time to get through. And we're going to keep standing up and keep going. And I think the other thing that I know from our previous conversations is that you listen for what's not said. What is it that's going on with someone? What are they showing in their body? What are they showing just with the selection of the words and maybe even the pacing? I know you tune into those things. And that's where you're drawing so much information, in addition to the deep listening that you do. And I think that that's such a powerful component. I make every effort to do that same thing. And I think that's part of why I witness it so much in my experiences with you, is because when we're intentional about participating in a relationship with someone, it's such a stronger relationship when we do that. I'm coaching people and they say, wow, this might make my marriage better, or this might make my family relationships better, because maybe I could apply this at home. And you do that anyway, right? You're already talking about this vast array of different relationships, and it's the same practices with a different sort of execution and a different kind of sensitivity for what is appropriate with that particular audience, even if it's only an audience of one.

SPEAKER_00: 38:17

Yeah. And that's why I asked you, because Becky, one of the things I've learned is you spot it, you got it. And uh uh you're a kindred spirit, and I know the work you do is important, and I so I just want to say to your listeners, uh, you're listening to a great podcast, you're listening to a great podcaster, but also a great person and a great leader. And I uh uh I just think that uh thank you for uh having me on today. I really have enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01: 38:45

Yeah, I have too. It's always a pleasure, as I mentioned before, to have a conversation with you. I know we'll have more, just we won't be necessarily recording it for the audience. So thanks again for coming in, and I look forward to our next conversation, Greg. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00: 39:00

Thank you, Becky.

SPEAKER_01: 39:02

If you have interest in connecting and learning more about today's guest, check out the show notes for ways to connect and follow up. Thanks for listening. If you found this episode helpful, share it with someone who could benefit from it. Until next time, I'm Becky Fraser, reminding you to integrate who you are with how you lead. Okay, bye.