SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Hi, I'm Becky. Welcome to Short Story Long. In this podcast, we discuss ways you can integrate who you are into how you lead. In this special episode, I'm bringing you two conversations. It's my interviews with CU TV radio hosts Jim Masters and Doug Llewellyn. Each one invited me to step out of my usual role as coach and podcast host and into the space of reflecting on my own path, my own work, and the philosophy behind it. Across these interviews, we explored the origins of my niche with introverted skeptics and how questioning, thoughtful leaders often hold more strength and clarity than they realize. I share my journey with a career in HR into leadership coaching, and how the transition helped me refine my belief that growth starts with inner work. It's understanding your patterns, honoring your energy, and leading from what's real rather than what's expected. Jim and Doug each pull on different threads. What authenticity looks like in leadership, how to navigate uncertainty and career change, and the role coaching plays in helping people access their untapped potential. You'll hear the story behind my business focus for growth, the way I partner with clients to turn awareness into action, and also why helping leaders trust their own voice has become the center of my work. If you're a leader seeking more alignment, someone navigating transition, or simply curious about how to lead with clarity and grounded confidence, these conversations offer insight into the approach and values that drive everything that I do.

SPEAKER_00: 1:43

This is your host, Jim Masters. Boy, do we have another great guest to celebrate here on our ongoing broadcast series. We're celebrating Coach Becky Fraser, part one of an exclusive two-part Close-Up Radio series. And we welcome Becky to our show for part one as we talk about her story and leadership philosophy. Becky, welcome to Close Up Radio. It's a pleasure to have you with us today.

SPEAKER_02: 2:08

Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_00: 2:10

You're very, very welcome. You know, I realize you're a coach now, but uh, as I mentioned in the introduction there and the introduction, there was so much more to say, but I'd rather hear the rest of it from you. Um you started in human resources, which is a great way to have an opportunity to learn about personalities and cultures and tying it all together. It gives you an advantage when working with your clients because you understand empathy and compassion and and leadership as well. Tell us some highlights of that career and what it taught you about good and poor leaders and how you even define them.

SPEAKER_02: 2:49

Yes, there's uh there's so much that you learn within the realm of human resources. And I definitely continue to value all of the time that I spent in that part of my work life. And, you know, a couple of the highlights. Some of the some of the worst parts, I guess, or the bad parts, if you will, of the leadership profile can show up when people are in deep fear and are in concern for, I don't know, just even how they feel like they're going to be able to stay or grow within an organization. One of the places I worked, we did a lot of mergers and acquisitions and reorganization. And so that really wasn't a climate where that fear could really pop up. And so what would happen is sometimes there'd be sabotaging or there'd be dismissive behaviors of, well, that's not really on target. And I don't know what you're doing, and I don't know why you're thinking about it that way, because it wasn't 100% on target and not really recognizing that maybe that 80-20 rule was at play. And if we had 80% of it, then we're probably good to go. Um, but on the good side of things, I think, you know, there's so many ways that people can show up as a good leader. One of them is really simple and low cost, and that is kindness. Just, you know, be open and talk to people, get to know them as human beings. And that doesn't need to get in the way of the work because you can actually be working and communicating with people at the same time. And as you're learning more about what they're interested in, what they're capable of, where they want to take their career, it actually can be strategic information to plug in when you're creating your own strategic plan and looking for your successor. And so you don't need to be afraid of someone learning all of the things that you already know and do, because what that does is it pre creates space for you to move forward because there's someone who can fill in behind you. It's just one of the key things that I see really great leaders recognizing.

SPEAKER_00: 5:07

Where did you learn, or the, you know, you the train to develop your skills and interest in coaching? Where did that happen for you? Because you're very good at what you do, and again, you have a unique perspective. Tell us about the training and the inspiration that put it all together for you.

SPEAKER_02: 5:25

Well, there's the formal side of that that actually happened, which, as you were talking about, the institute, excuse me, that didn't come out well. But IPEC is where I did the longer-term certification of training. And I actually went in there with a little bit of a thought of, oh, I can do this. This is what I've been doing for the whole time I've been in HR. And I very quickly realized that what I had been doing was still coaching, but it was more advisory coaching. It was where I was aiming toward a target and coaching people to agree with me. And truly, when I went through the coach training process, they really gave me the skills and the understanding of the importance of some of the detachment. I often talk to my clients about the fact that I actually don't choose, I don't care what choice they make. And it isn't because I don't care about them. It's because I actually do that I don't care what decision you make. I only care that it's the right one for you. And when I was in HR, I was thinking about it as what's best for us and the organization. And I had layers that were connected to that. And coach training, the way that I do coaching today, is really in service to my client. And I and my views and my expectations leave the room at that point in time. That's the formal side. The informal side that really came from the school of life, where I had to learn how to stop trying to solve every problem and really dig in and do it for everyone else. I was the collector of kind souls that didn't have boundaries in my early part of my life. And I had to recognize that in order to help them, I had to grow my own boundaries. And then I started to recognize oh, so if I back off, then they have room to recognize their own solution all on their own. So some of that was just in my personal life, but it really became a lot more formalized and structured when I went through coach training with IPEC, and then also some of the other smaller coaching programs that I've attended in uh in addition to that.

SPEAKER_00: 7:48

Sometimes when you do create those boundaries, which is very important, which I've learned to do as well, uh, you actually become more, it's it's crazy. You don't think it works this way, but your phone rings more. Yes. People want you around more, you're in more demand for some reason because there's less of you. You're not always I used to be the person that was the last one at the gathering helping everybody do the dishes before everybody goes home. Uh, and now you realize that, you know, when you're ready to go, you you go. And uh it's really fascinating when you realize boundaries. For some people, creating boundaries if they're not used to doing that, can be scary, right? Because they think if they create a boundary, everybody's gonna leave, everybody's gonna go away. And there will be people who will because maybe they were using you for just that specific thing and you were helping carry the load for them versus them learning how to carry the load for themselves and maybe you helping along. But it's fascinating to realize how creating the boundaries can be one of the healthiest things you can really do for yourself, right? You show people how to do that.

SPEAKER_02: 8:59

Yes, and also for other people. They know what the limits are, they know where to stop. And if you don't establish that, then they have to keep on testing to see how far they can go. And that's not even malicious all the time. Sometimes people are just asking for what they want, not recognizing that it's actually causing harm. And I appreciate so much what you're saying, too, about boundaries attracting people. It's it's such an interesting sort of um inversion of what you would expect. I think I agree with you on that, where oh, well, boundaries will hold people off and it'll push people away. No, actually, people are really fascinated by the fact that you can function that way and still be happy and connected. And there's sort of a magnetism to that. How do you do that?

SPEAKER_00: 9:50

Yeah, an allure, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_02: 9:52

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 9:54

Exactly. You don't have to say yes to every party. If you're exhausted, stay home and sleep and have some hot chocolate.

SPEAKER_02: 10:00

Absolutely. And everyone at the party will thank you because otherwise you fall asleep in the corner and it gets awkward.

SPEAKER_00: 10:07

Exactly. Uh now, are you strictly a quote, one-woman show, or do you collaborate with uh other coaches as well?

SPEAKER_02: 10:16

So, yes, I'm generally speaking a one-woman show, but it always takes a village, doesn't it? And so with that, I have people who are around me that lift me up in a variety of ways. I have people who help me on the technical side of things. Um, my podcast producer in particular. Uh, Rick has really been a powerful partner for me, making sure that my voice is strong, both in tone, but also in terms of messaging and really getting my ideas out there. And I have other people who help me on some of the administrative kinds of things, but it's also in the delivery of some of the work that I do as well, where I partner with other coaches so that we can bounce ideas off from one another. And sometimes we do that live in front of people so that other people can learn from us having those kinds of conversations and maybe take away some nuggets of insight about how they might choose to lead going forward. And then I think one of the things that I always think is important, no matter who you are or what you do, is having essentially that advisory board of people when you're asking someone who knows you well, someone who understands what you're doing or what you're striving to achieve. And you say, Is this, is this a dumb thing to do? Is this outside of what I told you I wanted to do? And those people need to be the ones who are saying that is outside your brand, that is really not something you should be engaging with, or oh, hey, let's talk about this. Let's figure out how you can make this the best thing for you going forward. It just really comes down to these are people who need to be honest with me about what they see because I'm going to be honest with them about what I see.

SPEAKER_00: 12:11

Exactly right. So important. Um some of those ways your coaching crosses boundaries. Speaking of boundaries, between life and transformational and business coaching, share for our listeners some of those ways that they they do cross these boundaries.

SPEAKER_02: 12:30

You know, this has been an interesting journey for me. I when I first started formally coaching, when I started my practice, people would ask me if I was a life coach. And I was like, no, not really, because I'm really in this professional space. And to some degree that was true, because my focal point was really helping people be productive leaders who felt good about what they were doing and felt connected to the work, but not feeling overwhelmed. And one of the things over time, as I started to coach people, they would bring in their life stuff and they'd say, Oh, I'm sorry, I need to bring that to my therapist. That's not for you. And in some instances, sure, right? I'm not, I'm not a psychologist, I'm not a psychiatrist, I don't have that particular skill set. But that doesn't mean that I can't connect with you as a human being and help you understand how who you are anywhere is who you are everywhere. And it's really critical for people to really recognize that the things that show up at work actually probably show up at home in a different way. And when we go to work, we don't just hang up our humanity and and leave that behind. And so I started to recognize that even in the early stages of my coaching engagements, I now talk to people about right, we have these specific goals, particularly if their company is sponsoring the coaching. There are specific, measurable goals that we want to target and work toward achieving. And when life comes in, I want them to feel comfortable sharing with me what those items are because it's affecting them at work. And we can't just isolate and compartmentalize those things because they're all interconnected. You are you from start to finish.

SPEAKER_00: 14:33

That's right. Exactly. You are. Uh, when the sun rises and the sun sets, and when you look in the mirror in the morning, it is you. And embrace that and celebrate that and the uniqueness of you as well. Um, because sometimes there is a negative self-talk, right? Or or maybe you hear society and others telling you, you can't do this, you can't do that, you'll you'll never be able to do that. And then you build up this wall and this protective armor and this self-talk that can keep you limited and locked into something on a treadmill, hamster wheel, that isn't helping you progress. So when you look in the mirror, uh love what you see and embrace it and work with it and share it with the world as best as you can, right?

SPEAKER_02: 15:18

Absolutely. And that treadmill or that hamster wheel starts to make you feel like you're stuck. And now you've trained yourself to stay there. And so you don't have a way that you can see off that treadmill or out of that wheel. And that self-talk can be so incredibly destructive. And so one of the things that I think is so important is to recognize when we're saying those things to ourself, recognize that most of the time the the negative stuff isn't really true. I'm not smart enough to do this, I'm not able to do that. No, you haven't learned how to do this yet fully, and you're finding your way forward. And you are capable, you just haven't necessarily pulled all of the pieces together in order to get the momentum that you want. Things are a pro in progress, but they aren't to that end point. And sometimes we get really impatient, especially with ourselves, when we're not able to get there as fast as we think we should.

SPEAKER_00: 16:22

What are some of your key leadership principles? You know, I mentioned you know the inclusivity part of it, which is important, and resilience are essential to being a productive leader and team. Tell us about that and some other leadership principles that are key to the equation.

SPEAKER_02: 16:42

I think really just tagging on at to start in terms of the the resilience. People often come to me thinking that resilience is all about the bouncing back from adversity. And they think about it as, you know, I failed and now I have to come back. Resilience is more nuanced and subtle than that in the everyday. And we are resilient all the time, every single day, because there's something that might have been a slight disappointment. We might, it could be as just inane as we were driving in traffic and it took us longer than what we wanted it to. And now we feel late and we're trying to hurry up to get to that client, to that workplace, whatever it might be. And we have to be able to let go of some of those disappointments and some of those expectations that we had that maybe we made up and weren't really true, or even the expectations that we had that were true, and we just have to grieve the fact that we will not achieve those things. And if we're hard on ourselves, we were just talking about the idea of this negative self-talk, and if we're negative with ourselves about those moments where we didn't get everything that we wanted to get or we aspired to get, well, that's a little bit of wasted effort, but it's already behind us. And so working toward that idea of grieving that loss and then shifting our focus to the next thing really helps us be far in a way more productive as a leader because we want to be able to keep things moving forward. The inclusivity side of it, this is sometimes we we look for people who are so much like us. And I don't know about you, but the people who tend to irritate me the most are the people who who are the most like me. I tend to really find value and curiosity around people who are are really different and come to me with thoughts that are deeply different from my own. Now, there's a comfort level when someone thinks like we do and acts like we do, and we can recognize that, but it starts to get boring and sometimes we start to see the things we don't like about ourselves in those other people, and we start blaming them for the things that are actually the things that we don't like about ourselves. And so surrounding ourselves with that diverse slate of people isn't about political correctness. To me, it's about really recognizing the value of those different perspectives and how they really strengthen your own. You're not required to agree with everyone who is around you. It's just an opportunity to be interested and gain little nuggets of knowledge that are tied to that. And that to me, those two things actually, and in a series more that we would take far more time than we have today to discuss. To me, one of the big things is the freedom to be able to make the decisions that you need to make. And that agency isn't something that someone gives you. You either uh create that for yourself in a small space where you can have agency to choose within your bubble, or you're in a situation where someone says, that's the hill, go take the hill. And you have to be able to draw upon yourself to create that vision and set that plan in order to achieve those things. And if you're looking for someone else to tell you what to do, then you're probably going to have a very difficult time really moving forward and achieving whatever that goal might be.

SPEAKER_00: 20:39

How did you arrive at your coaching niche, the introverted skeptic? I teased a little bit about it in the introduction, but um, I mean, you don't sound necessarily like an introvert uh as we are discussing things here, but there are extroverted introverts too, those who, when they have to be extroverted, they are, and then the minute the lights are off and everything's over, they go back home and they're introverted. Uh, tell us about that. It's an interesting and unique niche.

SPEAKER_02: 21:10

Yes. It and it came to me because I started thinking about who is it that I have historically really enjoyed working with. And I admittedly, I am an introverted skeptic. So earlier I was talking about people if I'm surrounded by too many people like me for too long, then they start to be annoying. But I also recognize that these two traits, and I recognize that all of the people I've worked with or talked to who've kind of recognized themselves as introverted skeptic, they have so many other characteristics and traits that make them uniquely them. And that is also an exciting part of me getting to know the introverted skeptics that I work with. What this really means to me is that these are the people that I have worked with traditionally who were really quiet in the meeting because they were collecting all of the information and they're trying to gather all of the bits so that they understand how they fit into the puzzle because they're not quite ready to admit, this is where the skepticism comes in. They're not quite ready to admit or accept, is probably even more likely that other people are going to design something that they are going to sign on. They are not the early adopters for ideas. They're going to look at all of the puzzle pieces and decide how they think they should fit together. And then they want to talk to others about, right? So I don't think that piece goes there. So they step back, they wait, they don't talk a lot, and then they come in and they ask a lot of questions that feel like criticisms to the people who are in the room. So as you might imagine, there are a lot of leadership superpowers, but also some of the things that they get in their own way in terms of leading through. And it's exciting to me to help them navigate how that's going to work for them. That introversion, no, I don't sound like an introvert. I refer to myself as an introvert who has a lot of words, but I define introversion more from kind of how you were describing it. It's about that energy source. It's really about when I'm at a cocktail party, when I'm, you know, hanging out with all of these strangers in a group networking event or something like that. Does that fill up my energy bucket or does that drain it? And I know for myself, I have a switch that goes off when my energy just stops. And I no longer have words at that point in time. I have a lot of words right until then, and then it stops. And so I recognize a lot of the things that happen with my clients who are the introverted skeptics, and it's really about helping them navigate their landscape with their characteristics and how they want to lead within their environment.

SPEAKER_00: 24:08

Which is really important. Something else that's important. Authenticity. What role from your perspective does authenticity play in being a strong leader?

SPEAKER_02: 24:20

I think this is fundamental. Um and authenticity to me isn't, you know, show them everything in the office. Right? That that's not that's not it. What it really comes down to for me is recognizing these are my strengths, these are my values, these are the things that make up who I am. And it isn't necessarily sharing all the details about how you spend your weekend or anything like that. You want that to be private, keep it private. You want to share it, fine. But what does matter is that if you care about people, letting them know that you care about them. If you're really focused on the tasks, and sometimes you forget to think about or ask about how other people are are feeling on a team, well tell people that. You know, look, I sometimes forget to ask these kinds of questions. And so it's not that I don't care, it's that I don't think about it. And so the more that we reveal about who we are and how we function, again it goes back to we are teaching other people how to treat us. And that's important both when we're working with our leader and it's critically important when we're sharing that with our teams because they need to know what to expect when they're interacting with you. And the more that you tell them what to expect, and critically how you show them those same things that has to be consistent, then they know how to interact with you. And going back to that conversation that we had about boundaries, they know where the limit is. When people see me and my words are gone, they're just like, okay, so maybe we'll talk the next time I see you or we'll schedule another time to talk. And I say, Yes, I think that's best. Because I do reserve enough words for the polite goodbye.

SPEAKER_00: 26:19

Exactly, which is always important to do. You uh you've got a powerful sense of who you are, and you integrate your feelings and life experiences really into everything you do, and you show others how they can do that as well, right?

SPEAKER_02: 26:36

Yes, absolutely. I think that people are far more comfortable leading when they don't feel like it's a performance. And it's really important that we can feel comfortable in our leadership skin. And that means we shouldn't be wearing a mask that we have to put on and take off and remember when it's on or off.

SPEAKER_00: 27:00

One of the things about your view of leadership being distinct is you aim to reveal the impact our humanity has on business results. And you believe, which I agree, people who have clarity of goals are empowered to achieve, and perhaps most crucially, supported by broad perspectives will drive powerful outcomes. And research actually proves that archaic leadership styles are ineffective. The boss, even the word boss, up in the ivory tower, just looking down at everything. Now people prefer a little bit more of the roll up the sleeves, participate, listen, show more compassion and empathy, emotional intelligence, bring that into the equation. People feel more respected, more valued, heard, and they will want to participate more. And if you're concerned about the bottom line, they will help you achieve the bottom line because they feel happy and respected and valued and heard and appreciated. So the archaic way of just listen, sit down, and zip it isn't really as effective as it once people thought was, because everything's changed. People are, you know, looking at things differently and they want to be heard and valued. And um, like you say, just using one set of thoughts and making decisions will limit those results. But if you build that capacity of the team, give them more authority, it'll yield better results in the long run. Also make good employees who are more likely to stay with the organization too, right?

SPEAKER_02: 28:32

Absolutely. It it first of all, they're more connected to the person they know. And it's it's pretty well recognized at this point in time that people often don't leave companies because of pay. Sometimes that's true, but most often they are leaving because of leadership within an organization. And it is really important that an employee feels connected to the leadership and the mission and the goals of that organization. And when your leader is in that ivory tower, there's no way to connect with that. And there's a whole body of work, right, that is about how hierarchical structures aren't necessarily very productive. Now, what I will say is that there are some places where that hierarchical structure can be critically important and and can work well, but where I live and work is in mostly corporate and nonprofit kinds of spaces. And in those elements, people are connected to a mission of an organization or a mission of a team, and they need to feel connected to the others who are kind of sharing that mission.

SPEAKER_00: 29:53

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 29:56

Well, hello everybody, welcome back to Close Up Talk Radio. Nice to have you back with us. us today and we're excited because Becky Fraser is back with us today. Welcome back. How are you today?

SPEAKER_02: 30:06

Thank you. It's uh it's great to be back and I'm doing very well today. I appreciate the chance to get to talk to you today.

SPEAKER_01: 30:12

Oh you you're very welcome. It's our pleasure to have you with us. Listen, I love the name of your your your coaching practice. The introverted skeptic I'm really amazed with how you came up with it and what does it really mean? It needs an explanation, okay?

SPEAKER_02: 30:27

Tell me. Yes, absolutely. This won't surprise you a bit I get asked to describe that on the regular. So the introverted skeptic is just a combination of two different traits that as I sat down and thought about who are the people that I really enjoy working with, those were two traits that just kept on coming up. I really enjoyed the people who were so incredibly thoughtful and I understood that they were processing and really trying to connect all of the dots whenever they were trying to understand something that so that might have slowed them down in some of their communication, but that didn't change the quality of what was going on in their head. There was usually a lot going on, you know that whole still waters run deep kind of thing. And then the other thing that I've always enjoyed with people maybe not always to uh my best interest, but they would be asking me a lot of questions and digging in trying to understand but how does that work? What does that mean? Why would that work that way? And really those two characteristics in the leaders that I had worked with when I was in human resources were often considered to be really challenging to support from an HR perspective. And as I started thinking about who I would want to coach the most, I kept thinking about those individuals and those were the two traits that kept coming up. And I thought well yes they're just they're introverted skeptics that's just who they are. And one of the things that I realized and recognized as I thought about the coaching clients that I'd had, they too had those same characteristics. Now they have a wide variety of other traits and characteristics that make them uniquely them. But those two things really showed up in the superpowers that they had but also in the challenges that they had well that's very good explanation no question about it.

SPEAKER_01: 32:28

Let me get you to explain your coaching practice who do you primarily uh appeal to do you think what what brings clients to you rather than someone else out there and there's so many others out there as you know talk about your coaching practice.

SPEAKER_02: 32:42

Sure. So one of the things that I find people say about me a lot is that I bring a calm to a really kind of sensory heightened kind of circumstance. Right now in the world and especially in organizations, there are all these things flying around what are the priorities? What are we going to do? We have to go we have to go we have to go and it's quarter to quarter and we're going to do layoffs and there's a lot of fear that's out there and I give people space. Now a lot of coaches will give people space to really think through and sort through things but it's interesting to me how much the way that I listen the way that I mirror things back my clients are always saying to me that you don't you don't push me. And again with my introverts in particular it's an opportunity for them to just sit and contemplate what they want to do without me answering for them or pushing them in a particular direction. And that's important because my people really enjoy making their own decisions and charting their own path. And if anyone is in there trying to help them navigate and help them solve the problem, they're more than likely to resist that. And so I just keep on saying okay what I heard you say is XYZ and so this is my question about that and starting to tie things together. And so it becomes a partnership in that way of I don't have to understand what your business is. I just have to be in fact it's somewhat of an advantage when I don't because then I get to ask all of those questions that if they were having that conversation with someone else inside their organization, they'd be like, why don't you know that? But when I'm asking it, then they're in a place of saying well of course Becky doesn't know that. Let me explain it. And so we get a chance to go deeper and deeper into those conversations about how they communicate things, how they decide where they want to go and how they want to navigate that. And quite frankly how they can feel like themselves when they're leading and so many people might be pushing them to be someone else and I'm not asking them to be anyone but them well that's good.

SPEAKER_01: 35:02

What made you want to become a coach? I mean you had a you had a great career going in human resources did you find you coached people in that in that job yeah of human resources or not?

SPEAKER_02: 35:14

Yes yes I would say that I did I but it it's a bit different than what it is now of course in the sense that I really had my own investments. I had my own KPIs that I had to meet. So I had to really push them in a particular direction. And now I don't have to do that. Even when the company is a sponsor I'm in a place where I get to really open up the gates and and explore all of the other things in addition to what the company wants for that person. I can help them navigate some of the other landscape in that. When I was in human resources that was a bit more challenging. And also when I was in human resources I did a lot of layoffs I was part of a the longest part of my HR career was with a company that did a lot of mergers and acquisitions and reorganizations as a consequence of that. And I found that that was heartbreaking work for me that I just couldn't do. And right along the time that I was going to be looking for my next opportunity, a friend had invited me to go to coach training and I started to realize wow I could do this. I could do this on my own. And I'd never thought of myself as an entrepreneur. Though I will tell you when I talked to my dad and told him hey dad I'm going to go out and start my own business he started to laugh and he told me so you finally figured out that you can't work for other people that has stayed with me for years because you know the apple didn't fall far from the tree as it turned out yeah yeah you said you did a lot of layoffs I think I know what you mean by that but explain that to me.

SPEAKER_01: 37:00

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02: 37:01

Yeah so when we would acquire a company a lot of times in the organization now combined there would be two maybe even three or four people for one or two different roles. And so we had to go through the process of identifying which individual or individuals had the skills and the talents in order to be the best match for the future organization. And we couldn't keep everyone. So some people were separated or terminated from the organization. And I was part of the designing of the new structure and also sadly identifying with the leadership who were the people who would stay and then also the communication strategy to those who were not staying and honestly also to those who were staying as well. We tried to make a point of of getting the communication right when I was doing that, but there's no great way to do it. You're still having a very challenging conversation with people and letting them know that their livelihood and the commitment that they've made to their profession has come to an end with that employer through no fault of their own that's hard to do I mean really isn't it yes it it really for a long time it really was a challenging part of my professional life and you know when people were not performing within an organization and terminating them for performance we were able to give them all sorts of warnings that that was coming when when you're letting someone go just because there are too many people with the same skill set that's a tough message on both sides, but particularly the person who's receiving that message and finding that they no longer have a seat at the table.

SPEAKER_01: 38:54

Yeah I can imagine that why coaching what made you I obviously you trained for it but what made you think this is what I want to do next? Why did you pick that?

SPEAKER_02: 39:04

You know it's interesting because while I was in human resources I had so many different facets to that job. I was an HR business partner or people partner whatever you might want to call it these days. And when I was going through the training was when I realized but this is the part that I actually enjoy. Having people talk with me and explore how is it that I can do this better? How is it that I can lead my team effectively so that they feel good, they feel connected to the work they're motivated because they've got things that they're excited about. And then even with individual contributors who by the way I still view them as leaders it was how can I do this better? How can I make my contribution stronger and how can I grow professionally well all of those things are the kinds of things that I love to coach people on now and I no longer have the architecture of HR structure to abide by and I still believe in HR as a function don't get me wrong it's just I had kind of run my run in that space. So I carved out the pieces of that role that I loved the most and turned it into my coaching practice. I still do training every one once in a while, right? And and sharing my knowledge in that way. But I still find that that coaching is the piece that makes me excited to get up and start working in the day.

SPEAKER_01: 40:36

I think that's great. What an interesting background you've had who do you think you're most suited to help how would you describe that a tough question?

SPEAKER_02: 40:45

No, it's actually it's actually a a a very nice question. And you know it runs the gamut a little bit but what I would say is that the the person who I find I can help the most is the person who really recognizes that what got them to the place that they're in right now is no longer helping them. So if I think about it a lot of times it's you know manager to director director to VP, but especially VP to executive where they're thinking about how they got themselves into that role, what has made them successful and they're saying why is it that I can't get to that next level I keep on getting passed over and told that I'm not ready. And I help them break down the different things of what they're hearing and how they can do that on their own. So a lot of times in that executive role they're told you really have to go out there, you have to talk to people you have to really get your message out and they're thinking oh my goodness I just want to shrivel up in a corner. I don't want to have to talk to people that much that exhausts me. And so I start talking to them about different communication systems that they would be able to use. They don't always have to you know go out and have cocktail dinners and everything like that. They can find their own way of connecting with people. And so we explore what kind of executive what kind of VP do you want to be and that's where we can really start to create that version of leadership for them where they can still get all of the outcomes but they don't have to turn themselves into someone else in order to do that. I'm always saying you have to lead as you because you're second best. You're the only one who can lead like you and you're second best if you're trying to be like someone else yeah you know you sound like you make so much sense.

SPEAKER_01: 42:43

How do you work with people primarily not I'm serious. You do um how do you primarily work with people? You know you do it on Zoom it doesn't matter where they are does it I mean you're in Detroit but they could be anywhere right your clients absolutely they can be anywhere.

SPEAKER_02: 42:58

I I do have some clients that have asked me to come and visit them in person. So I do spend some time doing that. But a strong majority of my clients are actually virtual. So I do Zoom calls if they really detest Zoom we can talk about other systems and platforms but I do prefer video call over a phone call though I've done phone call coaching as well. So really however is the best for my client to connect with me is what I strive to do. And I'm pretty open to whatever that might mean.

SPEAKER_01: 43:34

Do you find you do you attract more women than men or does it really matter? Do you work with men as well? I'm sure you do.

SPEAKER_02: 43:41

Yes actually right now I'm probably about 50-50 in terms of men and women and a lot of times because I do as much inner work as I do and and when I say that what I mean is thinking about who you are how you function what energizes you that you go to to kind of refill your energy reserves for yourself that a lot of that is inner work and what drives you to bring your best self to the workplace. So people assume that well those are women who are probably looking for that I find men to be very willing to be vulnerable with me in that kind of situation as well because once again they understand that what's happening for them now isn't working and they want it to work. And so they will really do that thoughtful and reflective kind of work in order to get what they want. So they really have to kind of open up to you uh seriously for your work to make any you know progress with them what's a what's an initial session with you like so an initial session with me is is honestly a lot of that is really refining what those goals will be and also what success looks like. In my first introductory conversation we touch on that a little bit but I like to really refine that into okay but what would that look like? What would you be seeing if you were successful in doing this? I can't guarantee a promotion I can't guarantee that your project will be successful. But what I can do is help you think about what's in your way so that's one of the other elements that we're going through is okay so if you're here in this place at A and you want to be at B, what are the things that you're encountering as you're headed toward B that keep you from being able to get there and it's interesting to me how often people haven't really thought about it that way. And then they or they might even say you know Becky I I really don't know. Okay, well then let's have that conversation and I start asking them a lot of questions around different experiences that they've had and we start to identify what some of those patterns are. Maybe they're limiting beliefs maybe they're assumptions about the organization maybe it's how they talk to themselves and how they feel about themselves in those moments. And so we start to understand what some of those blocks might be and then we can target those blocks.

SPEAKER_01: 46:23

Is it easy for you to tell what their potential problems might be just by talking to them for a while actually yes it's um because they tell me I don't right I don't have to guess they're explaining what their experience has been and my talent is in picking up the patterns.

SPEAKER_02: 46:47

I hear even if they're using different words I will often say okay I'm hearing this that and the other and I'm wondering how did those three things come together for you and what ends up happening is they say oh wow well this is what happens and then they start telling me all about what's going on inside of them and we're able to then unwind some of those belief systems and those structures that they've been relying on that may have helped them in the past but are not serving them anymore.

SPEAKER_01: 47:22

That's interesting. You sound like most of your clients come to you because of problems on the job. Are many times personal problems at home you know part of the reason that they're having issues that you have to deal with?

SPEAKER_02: 47:38

You know what's interesting is that most of the time when my clients are coming to me, whether they're sponsored by their employer or they're coming to me directly they don't they don't necessarily feel like they're in trouble. What they see is that they aren't getting the next step and they're not growing in the way that they want to or an employer might say look I want to promote Becky into a VP role and we want to make sure she has the support wrapped around her in order to be successful. So certainly it's that kind of scenario typically people won't come to me about things in their personal life specifically because that's not that's not really what I talk about. And so people don't connect those kinds of challenges with me. Now that being said sometimes some of the outside things some of the family things some of the life things start getting brought into our conversations about professional because it's a it's an energy drain. I want to spend more time with my family. I want to be doing all of these things they're getting annoyed with me because I'm working all of the time instead of really dedicating my time to my family. So we start thinking about ways to incorporate that. So yes I'm open to talking about their life but that's not why they come to me.

SPEAKER_01: 49:06

I get it that makes sense. How long do you find you typically have to work with with a client before you know they really start start to feel an improvement and and and get on the right path. How would you answer that?

SPEAKER_02: 49:20

Typically when I'm working with people it's interesting because I I will start with maybe a four or six month kind of agreement with people because we start out they're really enthusiastic they're really excited and then it gets kind of hard right in the middle there, maybe about two, three months in it gets really challenging because you can sustain a new pattern for a while, but then it starts to get to be difficult to maintain it because that's not what you've always been geared toward doing. So I like to help them get through that piece of it so that they've got a sustainable pattern. What I often find is that then some of them will say okay that was great. Now I want to talk about this other thing. So where it might start at four or six months and some people are saying thanks Becky that was awesome I'm off to my great journey and I wish them well and I often stay in touch. And others will say okay here's this other thing I want to work with so some of my clients I've had for multiple years even seven or eight years it's just been a new challenge that they identify and say let's shift over to this other thing because you know about my background now it becomes easier for you to help me move into this next level of success.

SPEAKER_01: 50:43

Wow seven or eight years that sounds like a long time and it is quite frankly it is a long time.

SPEAKER_02: 50:49

And you know there have been breaks in there right where they would say you know what I need this other experience for now and then you know like I say we stay in touch and then they'll say okay you know what I need I need you for this right now. And so then we'll re-engage. And so some of that gets breaks in there but a lot of it has been us actively working together.

SPEAKER_01: 51:14

Well it sounds like what you're doing is really kind of the perfect kind of thing. Uh how there are so many different questions I want to ask number one let me ask you a quick question. I understand you wrote a book called Coach You um tell me about that. Is it is it your story as a coach or what? How would you describe it?

SPEAKER_02: 51:33

So it was interesting. It was supposed to be a story about me initially and I decided that the story I was writing or the book I was writing felt a little bit too memoiry. And so I decided what I wanted to do was to think about the person who was reading the book and really focus on them. And that's where Coach U was born. It's a it's a coaching framework and it's a tool to help them the reader that is cultivate reflection awareness and accountability in themselves. So basically each of the chapters is a bit like a coaching conversation where I have a situation that uh an introverted skeptic might find themselves in. Perhaps it's you know I'm I'm gearing up to do this presentation to an executive team and I need to knock it out of the park. And then I start to talk about some of the things that I have had as an experience with my clients and frankly some of my own that were processed and gave a few tips and gave a few ideas. And then at the end I would give this vision of hope of this is how you could feel and I know this because I've seen people achieve those things and I ask them to identify an action to take and the coach you model is really about identifying what is the reason you're going to take that action and how does that serve you. And instead of the memoir I turned that into my podcast.

SPEAKER_01: 53:02

That's another story to talk about let me ask you about success stories.

SPEAKER_02: 53:06

Do you have any specific one or two that you want to pass along to us you know someone who's coming to you for help and my golly they got it yes actually there there are a few actually where you know sometimes one of the really common ones but I'm thinking of a specific person is that they're really deep into the weeds as you say right where they're really into the work and they're not able to take that step back and create the vision for the team or the group or the division. And so they're so busy that they're burning themselves out and they're still not doing that high level work that they're supposed to be doing. And one of my clients actually really just stepped back quite a bit and recognized that the team below him wasn't being held accountable. And so really started to recognize that he wasn't doing anyone any favors by doing the work for them. And he had to step back and let them be successful because it was actually costing them the ability to do the work. And one other honestly that I think about is a person who had a very difficult time being in meetings. Again this is a common theme but one person in particular and we just ended up really doing a lot of the inner work to understand what is it that keeps you from stepping out and sharing all of the insights and intelligent thoughts that you have. And once we got to the core of that it's like that sort of just floated away a little bit and that concern was no longer there because this is my mission and I'm no longer thinking about are they judging me? What are they thinking? It's I'm thinking about what they need to know and understand.

SPEAKER_01: 54:58

And it was just a complete pivot interesting let me ask you about your podcast this is something new that you just started uh and and you call it short story long. You're great on titles.

SPEAKER_02: 55:15

Explain that one to me okay sure absolutely so funny story is that I was actually talking to my uh podcast producer and he was telling me about my website which was in dire straits at the time and he was outlining some things and we started talking about the book I hadn't written. And he said you know well this sounds like a podcast to me. And he kept on telling me how easy it would be and of course my eyes were glazed over and I was in a panic thinking there's no way I could do that. And I kept on talking and well you know people will often say long story short when they're they're talking about something. And I know I'm a bit of a talker. So I said well you know short story long this is what happened. And he came back and he said that's the name of your podcast right there. And so that was last summer and that would have been of 2024. And so we decided I told him I would do it but only if he produced it for me. And so he and I have been partners in that endeavor since and we launched the first one in September of 24. So we have a year of uh episodes that we've been dropping. It's been a whole lot of fun because at first it was my story inflection points and the random acts of weirdness that I did in my life to get to where I am today. And then I thought wow how interesting would it be to get these really insightful stories from people and have them share the inflection points in their lives where they made a choice that really had a powerful impact on how they lead. And I wanted to do that in a podcast form because then it's so accessible to so many people to be able to hear those words of wisdom and it lands with them in whichever way it lands with them. And that's really important to me is that people can see themselves in others and learn without the experience themselves. Not all of us need to do the same face plants over and over and over again. We can actually observe others and that's what I wanted my podcast to be a way to observe the experience of others and then understand how to build the skills connected to that.

SPEAKER_01: 57:34

That sounds great. How often do you do them?

SPEAKER_02: 57:36

They're weekly episodes so I'll do an interview and then I do what I call a skill builder episode following an interview.

SPEAKER_01: 57:44

Yeah. And each one is about someone specific it's their story almost that you yes actually I interview them.

SPEAKER_02: 57:51

They they come on live onto the show and they will uh share this experience that they've had and we get a chance to talk through it a little bit and it's been so interesting. People I've known for a long time some of them have come on and I learned things that I otherwise would not have known about them. And so it's been a really fun thing I've also had strangers come in and uh be willing to share their story with me and really go deep with it sometimes.

SPEAKER_01: 58:22

Oh it sounds great. It's called Short Story Long and how can people find it? Anyone listening to us right now what what can you tell them?

SPEAKER_02: 58:30

Yeah so uh the quickest and probably the easiest way is to go to my website because it'll point you there but you can go to shortstorylongpod dot com and really you can subscribe to it just about anywhere that you can find a a podcast these days. So it's all over the place short storylong.

SPEAKER_01: 58:50

Sounds great really great story. Anyway your your website is the introverted skeptic.com and uh that's where you'll find out more information about Becky's coaching practice how to get in touch with her and also more about the you know about her podcasts. It really sounds fascinating. I'm glad you're doing it good for you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 59:12

We all need more podcasts at least the ones that lift us up right and and give us inspiration.

SPEAKER_01: 59:19

Isn't that the truth? Becky listen it's been great chatting with you. Thank you so much. You sound like an amazing coach and and you you just talked like one who would be very encouraging to talk to I really get that feeling our guest has been Becky Fraser. She's based in Detroit she does see people in person. How often do you do that? Isn't that kind of rare or not?

SPEAKER_02: 59:40

Uh actually no I'm in Detroit proper I'm in the metro area where I live but I'm in Detroit proper probably two to three days a week actually.

SPEAKER_01: 59:49

And seeing people do you find you get more out out of working with someone in person than you do, you know, over Zoom or over telephone or whatever? How about that?

SPEAKER_02: 59:57

Actually it doesn't change the experience for me. Which is why I um am so sensitive to what works best for my client. Yeah. Because if they if it's important to them, then it's important to me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:10

Oh, that's very interesting indeed. Becky, thank you so much. It's been great chatting with you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:15

Thanks for listening. If you found this episode helpful, share it with someone who could benefit from it. Until next time, I'm Becky Fraser, reminding you to integrate who you are with how you lead. Okay, bye.